Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[lowdrag]

Ah, the vehemence commences. I hasten to add that I admit to having two serious accidents in the last two years. One when someone reversed out of a parking space into the side of my oh-so-powerful 130 bhp estate (the least powerful in the range as it happens). The other when stopping at a roundabout and being hit from behind. You saints obviously go to church every Sunday so that law doesn't apply, but I know no one who does religiously sticks to the limit prevailing; in town we just follow the car in front in peak times. In England, France, Spain, Italy, USA and wherever else I've been in my life I have found the most law-abiding are the Australians frankly. If I leave my home in the middle of the countryside I pass through a 60 limit, a 40 limit, a 30 limit, a 60 limit, a 50 limit, then a 20 limit (school), then a 30 and finally a 60 again just to get to the golf club. All 5.5 miles of the journey, mostly on back roads. Is that common sense? It is burocracy gone mad. Rail as you will, some people get away with law-breaking all their lives, especially burglars because the police aren't interested in them, only taking the easy money from motorists.

The article on voiturettes is misinformed. The idea, since France is five times the size of the UK, was to enable people to get to work. There was a system called the "white licence" which exists no more sadly. People who ran out of points could, if the court allowed, have a licence which was valid from 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday to keep their jobs. Caught outside those hours they were in deep trouble. But I found it a creative way of keeping people in employment. You probably won't. the Puritan attitude would want them to suffer. I see widows driving voiturettes, people who have no family in the locality, no means of getting the staples of life, since supermarkets do not deliver in France. i find that humane. These cars are 500cc and limited to 40 mph by the way, and have two-speed auto boxes. The majority of these voiturettes are owned by people who just travel locally, not rabid drunk drivers. Another thing; would it not be sensible to allow children to go to school on a moped without a licence if they are 14 and over? They can go faster on a modern push bike if they want, and probably an electric bike is even faster, but that needs no licence. Sit back and relax folks; life is for living, not persecuting. I don't try and get points deducted, it is inattention in the main that causes it because the speed limit sign was hidden behind a lorry or whatever. But on one thing we do agree I guess. Why do the British government allow the French access to their computers to fine British people caught speeding in France while the French can do as they like in the UK without fear?

Ah, I forgot one thing. In France the points system is totally different. Up to 20 kph over the limit, 1 point for six months, 21-30 2 points three years and over 50 kph over the limit loss of licence and confiscation of the car which is sold for state funds. Empathetic for minor infractions, penal for serious ones. If you have a string of minor infractions leaving you near to a loss of licence you can go back to school for two days and pay £400 and if successful recover 4 points. A system that discourages serious speeding but also considers the human side of things. I think that is far better than the UK system where four minor lapses leaves you on foot for a twelvemonth - and then an enormous insurance bill to boot.

[Bitumen Boy]

[Ray White]

If it was just my decision, I would leave the U.K.for a life in France. I once found a beautiful farm in Aquitaine which would have been an ideal deer park. It also had lots of outbuildings for old cars!

Unfortunately, my other half had family dependents and I respect that.

[Kleftiwallah]

So, some plod (care of the good ol' Daily Mail) wants to sting any motorist travelling at anything over the speed limit.

Do you think my Chronometric speedo would be a good defence/excuse?

Cheers, Tony.
_________________
It may work in practice, but not necessarily in theory!

[Bitumen Boy]

As an illustration of how speed limits are frequently barking mad and may even have a negative impact on road safety, let me tell you about Skenfrith.

Skenfrith is a small village in Monmouthshire, where the old road from Abergavenny to Ross on Wye crosses the river Monnow, close to the border with Herefordshire. It's only a small place with the main (and only) street of the village branching off the main road. Now when I first knew Skenfrith that main road had no speed limit lower than the 60mph NSL. Dodgy? Not at all. You see, by accident of history the present main road winds around a bit through the village, probably following ancient land boundaries*. As you come through the village, then, there are a series of three sharp bends - so sharp that maximum speed in the dry is about 20mph. A combination of other hazards - 3 awkward junctions, bus stop, pub car park, narrow hump-backed bridge - means that a prudent driver who knows the road will slow down to rather less than that.

The road could have been made safer with better warning signs of the various hazards, possibly with a plate underneath giving an advisory speed limit of 10 - 15mph.** But no. Some idiot at Monmouthshire council decided to impose a bog-standard 30mph limit on the main road, I would guess after doing no more than glancing at a map. That 30mph limit is completely pointless as it is impossible to do 30 - anyone who tries is pretty much guaranteed to crash. Not only that, but to my mind it makes the road more dangerous as an unfamiliar driver could see the 30 sign and think it's safe to do 30 when it's not. Coming from Abergavenny the first bend is deceptive in appearance while coming from Ross the hump of the bridge hides everything until it's far too late to slow down. Speed limits are an extremely blunt instrument and are often imposed inappropriately.


* Looking at a large scale OS map, I suspect the road towards Abergavenny once took a different route along higher ground, and probably forded the river a little way upstream of the present bridge - though we probably wouldn't have called it a road!

** Monmouthshire council don't really understand such advisory speed limits. They put up a load of identical signs before bends along the Usk to Chepstow road giving and advisory speed of 40mph, but several of them are in places where you need to slow to a lot less than 40 to have any chance of getting round the bend safely.

[Ray White]

Our house is at the end of the 'adopted' part of a single track lane with the National 60 mph. The consequence is that we walk down the lane at our peril. Locals know and care about us lane dwellers and drive with caution but we get boy racers who charge up the lane and use the turning area (especially at night with no street lighting) as a place to play loud music and take drugs. Then when they are "high" enough they charge back down the lane recklessly and without a care for any one.

Is the problem going to be made better by introducing a speed restriction? I don't think so. The trouble makers will just ignore it. We used to have a community policing policy which kept the problem under control but unfortunately, the copper has gone along with the policy.

[alastairq]

The issue of speed limits[which are simply that...a limit..not a target!!]..ignores totally one of the basic tenets of being granted a Driving Licence [which is a State-sponsored privilege, not a right...and is most certainly not a travel pass..although too many treat it as such!].....in other words, too many with a licence have got hold of entirely the wrong end of the stick.

The Driving Licence places all responsibility on the holder.

It is not the State's responsibility to ensure every Licence holder actually understands what Duties holding a Driving Licence imposes on that holder.

As a result of this failure to comprehend...too many License holders are convinced it is the State's responsibility to ensure safety is maintained.

Whereas it is the licence holders' duty to do so [unacceptably, it appears?}

Zero tolerance speed limit enforcement has been done before [under Labour's Tony Blair]....and ceased because the Legal system could not cope with the influx of cases......after all, one doesn't have to pay the fine...one can go to Court instead. If every speeder did that, the Court system would collapse]

The offence of exceeding the speed limit is an 'absolute' offence...no grey areas at all..one either has, or has not, exceeded the posted limit.

Complying with a limit is quite easy....and does not involve any direct danger at all.
One has also a Duty, by holding a Driving Licence, to not exceed a speed which is safe, paying due regard to road & traffic conditions, within the constraints of the prevailing legal limit....regardless of where that limit is set.

Not difficult..if one is doing one's 'job' properly.

Having a fairly accurate speedo is a legal requirement. If one's speedo under-reads, tough [try using that in mitigation in Court....when one has been reported for an Offence?]!

Complying with the LAw with regards to driving is, however, seen as a gross inconvenience by many.

Because, it doesn't suit!

The result of relaxing these LAws is...simply...anarchy on the roads.

The difficulty is..complying with the Law is at odds with the general traffic behaviour.
I comply, in my Daihatsu Fourtrak...with its scaffolding poles across the front, it's 5 mm thick sill rock sliders [so I've been informed]...and its massive steel towbar....[all work done by me, to overcome the DAihatsu's major faults]...plus its 5 & 3/4 tonne plated train weight......

Mostly though, I make full use of all the driving skills I've had to learn, develop, prove, and finally [for the last 20 years]...instruct upon....to ensure I have a low risk journey, in a manner which now suits me [hooligan-style], all within the Law....

Like driving a low powered car [or whatever?]....I get more fun out of getting the best out of what I have, or am allowed to do..... than deliberately ignoring the legal restrictions, or seeking unlimited horsepower.
At least in this Country we have far fewer 'restrictions'....far less draconian application, in regards to the Law, than in other countries...Britain is far more laissez faire about it all....as long as we don't start killing each other..or start raising the drama levels.

But, one thing to remember about speed limits is...it isn't about the infliction upon us as drivers....it's all about allowing all other road users to cope with us, the drivers...and cope comfortably and relatively risk-free.
If other road users struggle to cope with us drivers..then the limit needs lowering.

It's all about giving every other road user time....to deal with us.

Things go wrong when we run out of time....to cope with them. I know I'm at the best, safest, speed, when I know I have time to cope with whatever anybody else does.
I don't possess a crystal ball...so I must rely upon the one remaining skill...that of 'anticipation'......much of which is based on how clear my view ahead, etc, really is.
It's no good thinking 100 mph is safe...after the fact. After the fact, we know there was 'nothing there'.....