classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

Copyright (sigh)
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> General Motoring & Collectables
Author Message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20335
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject: Copyright (sigh) Reply with quote

I noticed this evening that member(s) of a FB group have re-used a number of images lifted from the image archive section of the site, many of the images being ones that people have sent over, say from family albums and such like, and have given express permission for me to share on OCC.

Pages on OCC all say that the images are copyright.

So when I saw a number of photos copied and posted up on FB without seeking permission first, I politely commented that this wasn't really the proper thing to do.

The torrent of abuse I received as a result was quite something.

However I take this quite seriously. People let me share their precious family photos, which often feature members of their family in them, and I treat them with respect and credit the source. So when I see such photos spread around online without so much as an attempt at seeking permission, I will point out that it's not cricket.

I understand that some people will re-post photos innocently, without really thinking about copyright, so easy does Google Images and the like make it to take copies of photos found online. So I try to explain a publisher's point of view.

As I've explained, try copying photos out of a modern book or magazine and publishing them elsewhere, and see what happens.

I now appear to be a pariah within this particular FB group for having the temerity to point any of this out. Which doesn't bother me in particular, I just find it amazing that so many people find my point of view so strange, or unreasonable.

Ah the joys of the internet .... or not!!!

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Farmer John



Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 160
Location: Manawatu NZ

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:38 am    Post subject: Copywright Reply with quote

Hi Rick. You have integrity, facebook knows nothing of such values.
I am with you 100%.
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1189
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an erstwhile photographer I have to say that the word copyright is disappearing from the english language today. The moment you post any photo on FB you have lost the copyright to FB and it is so easy to copy and paste elsewhere. No one gives a monkey's these days that I spent a fortune on cameras and lenses to take these photos, they just take them for free. Not long back one appeared in a book and I did get paid for its use, and the writer was most apologetic but explained he had received the photo from a contributor in Australia!

Recently I was contacted by a magazine that wanted to write an article on my XKSS and I had a long chat with the photographer. The amount of equipment and lenses he brought put me to shame and he told me that earning a living today is getting very precarious. But that is the world today I suppose. Why watch five days of cricket when you can see a 20 over slog? The niceties and subleties in all walks of life are disappearing. And along with it honesty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1712
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only post 'throw away' images on FB, never any that I really value. Only yesterday I was looking at ways of disabling 'right click, save image as' for the photography section of my website where I hoped to post some of my better efforts but it's impossible, unfortunately. If anyone does know of a way, please let me know.
_________________
David

1963 Riley 1.5
1965 Riley 1.5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20335
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riley Blue wrote:
I only post 'throw away' images on FB, never any that I really value. Only yesterday I was looking at ways of disabling 'right click, save image as' for the photography section of my website where I hoped to post some of my better efforts but it's impossible, unfortunately. If anyone does know of a way, please let me know.


The photos in question hadn't been posted on FB by myself, just on OCC, but had been lifted from here and re-used on FB by others. Users on pinterest rip copies of just about everything on OCC to bulk-up their own groups, just seems to be how things are nowadays.

As for your photos, all you can do is post a watermark over any images which may put off a few people from re-using your work, but it won't stop it altogether. When Google and the like actively scrape content from everything online to boost their records, and ultimately their $$$, it sets the precedent for everyone else to do the same and consider it reasonable.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3399
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately there are a load of people who expect or assume that any resources found on the internet, be it pictures or services are free and open source, they will happily lift pictures and moan about the "free" services not performing to their expectation!

With regards to Riley Blues question; it difficult to protect an image as snipper tools will lift anything! A watermark may be your best bet, but apps like Photoshop make them quite simple to remove.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
roverdriver



Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 1108
Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick, you have done all that you can, but the unscrupulous have no interest in that sort of thing They see it, want it, the way to copy exists, so they just grab it without further thought.

Unfortunately the WWW allows this sort of thing to happen and it will never stop. I would think that most people who send items to you would be aware that there is a risk of the items being copied. I certainly am aware and have had one occasion when one of my stories was posted on another website.

Just keep up the good work, Rick and ignore the comments from the great unwashed.
_________________
Dane- roverdriver but not a Viking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1136
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the trouble with the anonymity of places like Facebook.
Abuse can be flung with [apparent] impunity.

Possibly best if OCC complains to FAcebook itself, utilising the tools Facebook provide us all with?
Complaining, not about issues of copyright, but other issues which hopefully result in facebook taking photos down...which will indeed spoil the posts of the other facebook group mentioned in the first post [wish I knew who they are....?
I was good pals with one of the original producers of the Troll...a competent trials car.]
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 2497
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst looking at the Internet the other day I noticed on one of those MotorBase sites that the pictures for the Phase 1 Hillman Minx were of my car lifted straight from my Flickr photopool.
_________________
1937 Ford 7w
1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
1978 Karrier Bantam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 1734
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It frustrates me, too. Some years back I posted some photos from a gig I had been to, and later found them on someone else's FB feed, posted as if they had taken them. It was frustrating (for my ego as much as anything else) that this person was receiving "Great photos!" comments and didn't feel the need at any point to point out he'd just downloaded them from somewhere.

Watermarking is a way to at least protect the source, even if it doesn't actually stop people from posting. But then you have the dilemma - do you put the watermark across the middle where it detracts from the photo, or do you put it somewhere out of the way where it can be easily removed?

Making sure the "copyright" field in the EXIF data is filled in is a way to make it difficult for people to claim they didn't know the image belonged to someone else, though of course that can be removed. But that's two different scenarios - the casual user who "just didn't think", and the person actually setting out to steal the image. But you have to decide - do you put the web site in there, or the name of the person who sent the image?

On the subject of FB and copyright, I couldn't find anything in their Ts and Cs (as far as I could bring myself to look) that confirms that just uploading photos gives them the copyright to the image. It's a widely-held belief, but I think it's one that isn't actually true. (for example: https://www.copytrack.com/does-facebook-own-my-pictures/ )

I float about between watermarking and not - sometimes I do, then others I just can't be bothered, or perhaps think that by watermarking, I am somehow suggesting that my photo is so great people will be queuing up to steal it. I usually post images after resizing them to be quite small - mainly for my own upload bandwidth considerations - so no-one could take one of mine and print it out at any decent size.

FB say that they're clamping down on abusive posts and the like - so in your case I'd be reporting the users, either to the group admin or to FB themselves. According to that link above, there's an FB term that states you must be uploading content that you own, so by uploading photos from here without permission, those users have broken their agreement with FB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20335
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not something I particularly want to make a fuss over, but when I see OCC photos on FB copied and posted by others, I do at least post that the image was lifted from OCC, and I usually include a link back to the relevant page. One photo in particular, which I know includes family members that relate directly to the person that sent me the photo, attracted a particularly derogatory remark, that annoyed me intensely so led me to point out, quite pointedly, that any photos shared on OCC shouldn't be re-used elsewhere. I know it'll happen anyway, but in this case in particular I wanted to highlight that it shouldn't happen.

A few years ago I uploaded a video to Youtube, and it got 2m+ views. A couple of years later I spotted that (I think) Brazilian version of Top Gear, had copied it in full and posted it on another video sharing platform under their own name (even though the vid had OCC's website name in it throughout), and they too had received several million views and lots of praise.

These things happen, I've been online long enough to know this well, but I'm surprised just how vociferous people can be when I point out that, technically, they shouldn't.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> General Motoring & Collectables All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.