Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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SamWise Guest
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: Sunbeam Tiger |
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Hi
I'm writing an article for a leading classic car magazine, a brief one on the Sunbeam Tiger. It's to be titled "What we love about.....", so what I'm hoping for, from Tiger owners, or simply those who appreciate them, is to hear what you love about the Tiger. It could be V8 performance in a lightweight package, or that it has the most nifty interior light ever (unlikely in a convertible, I grant you!). Any takers? |
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Carl La Fong Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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One of the many things I like about the Tiger is that it was based on the platform from the Hillman Husky, also known as the Commer Cob van. Now how many other good looking sports cars powered by meaty V8 engines were based on a van? |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think that the thing that I liked most about the Tiger was that it was a prime example of how a car should not have been built! I'll explain my reasoning.
Rootes group (Chrysler) could have built it using components from their own cars. eg, they could have used a Mopar small block, instead of a Ford. But, for reasons that I have never been able to find, Jensen was given the task to do the conversions. For some unfathomable reason, even though Jensen were using Chrysler motors in their own cars, the chose the Ford.
If they had used their own components, the car would have been easier to market, probably cheaper, and further improved the Chrysler Corp. performance image! |
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Carl La Fong Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Not quite right, Uncle J. The Tiger was developed (or perhaps more correctly, cobbled together) before the Chrysler takeover of Rootes. When the Americans finally got hold of all the Rootes shares, they tried to fit a Chrysler engine but it couldn't be done (they said), or perhaps more correctly, Chrysler simply couldn't be bothered to put the effort in to do it properly. |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, you are right of course. As far as my memory goes, the first Tigers were produced in 1964, just before the Chrysler takeover later in the same year.
I can tell you for a fact though, the small block Mopar will go in. Its not that difficult either, so I'm guessing that you are right in saying that Chrysler couldn't be bothered.
If you look back to the british motor industry at that time, then it was the period that accountants had got hold of most of the companies, and were busy destroying them. So maybe thats another explanation? |
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Carl La Fong Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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More than likely that the bean counters called the shots. I'm sure you're right in saying the small blaock Mopar engine could have been made to fit in - if the squeezed it into a Humber Sceptre and Super Snipe, surely they could have made the effort with the Tiger. |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well, beanies destroyed the British motorcycle industry, so why shouldn't they do the same with the car industry? |
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SamWise Guest
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Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all that! Actually, the purchase by Chrysler was a large part of why the Tiger was killed. The issue with the Chrysler V8 was the distributor positioning - at the rear, whereas the Ford had it at the front. Sounds like something that could be fairly easily overcome though...... |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to put forward the suggestion that the reason that the Tiger had a ford engine was in fact nothing to do with the small block Chryslers distributor positioning, but more to do with the fact that Rootes group collaborated with Carroll Shelby.
At that time, as well as later, Shelby was also collaborating with Ford (conflict of interests?), and buying in their engines. To purchase a motor from Chrysler would, in effect, be biting the hand that feeds.
There are also a couple of things that could be interesting to note on the periphery. One was that IF a Chrysler engine had been used, then it could have been an aluminium version of the 273 V8, as there is evidence to suggest that Chrysler were in fact working on this at the time. The other regards Shelby. Though he is also credited with the GT350 and 500 Mustangs, everyone forgets the 428 mustang that Bob Tasca built previous to the Shelby's! |
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alfanut Guest
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yes indeed Uncle Joe, it was the Shelby connection that gave birth to the Tiger, although I think that someone had converted one before. It originally had the 260 engine, but the Mark II had the 289, the same as the smaller-engined Cobra.
Unfortunately Chrysler pulled the plug in 1967, as soon as they had taken over Rootes, and after only a few hundred Mark IIs hade been made. This was due to company politics, a Ford engine in a Chrysler car wouldn't have looked good. It was a shame, as my one contribution to the rise and fall of the British motor industry (as an apprentice, I designed the Mark II clutch) disappeared almost before it saw the light of day. Unfortunately, I never got to drive the car, only a clutch in the test house!
As an aside, Lord Rootes had a one-off Humber Super Snipe with a Ford V8 engine. I think it was automatic, and it might well have gone into production if it hadn't been for the takeover, so perhaps the links were stronger? |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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alfanut, I did hear many years ago of a V8 being put into a mid-fifties Humber, but even so, could it be possible that you are mixing up a couple of things?
The Tiger project gave birth to two other projects, one to put V8 in a Sceptre, the other a V8 in a Snipe.
It is rumoured, never confirmed, that one of Lord Rootes' sons, Brian had a 289 Ford in a Venezia, a kind of Sceptre/Alpine hybrid.
Some V8 Snipes were indeed built, using Chrysler V8's, exactly which one I'm not sure, but possibly the '67-on 318. These were built in Australia, for export to the UK. This was an attempt to re-enter the luxury car market. |
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alfanut Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Uncle Joe, you may well be right, and it was indeed a Chrysler engine. A hemi Snipe - wow . I'll try and see if I can turn up anything that throws any light on the matter. |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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alfanut, I would be interested to hear if you turn up anything.
Just out of curiosity, when you mentioned working on the MkII clutch, was that for Rootes, or someone else? |
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admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 925
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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all this talk of re-engined prototypes/test cars, reminds me of reading about, after taking over Daimler, how Jaguar fitted the 4.5 V8 from the Majestic Major into a Mk10, found it very quick, and promptly cancelled production of the big Daimler, because of its pace and being livelier than the standard XK powered Jaguar.
Rick
Last edited by admin on Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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When you think about it, the british motor industry could have made some good cars a lot better by doing a few engine swaps themselves, and not leaving it up to others!
UJ |
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