Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Jack.Morris
Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: Triumph Herald 13/60 |
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hi i have just recently bought a 1968 triumph herald 13/60 does anyone have any points i should keep a eye on to look after the car and keep it in good condition.
thanks jack |
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Jack.Morris
Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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[Photo link fixed, use the IMG Code. Very straight looking car! Rick] |
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Rick Site Admin
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22449 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum Jack.
One of the more vulnerable areas on Heralds is the chassis, in particular the rear outriggers that fan out at the rear, underneath the boot floor, and also those that run from the centre chassis, out to the edges behind the screw-on sills. They can rot away so keep any build up of mud to a minimum, and if possible spray old oil/Waxoyl/??? around to protect the metal.
Rick _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 1735 Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Just for a kickoff, there's a Yahoo email group for Herald enthusiasts that you'll find useful, particularly if you're not a member of one of the various clubs. It's free to join and we're a friendly bunch!
One thing I've found very handy with my Herald, as far a rustproofing is concerned, is Denso tape. It has various uses, but is particularly useful for stuffing into and filling up mud traps - a good example being the gap between the upper side of the frontmost outrigger and the lower side of the bodywork, which collects all the rubbish thrown up by the front wheels and thus rots all too readily. If such gaps are stuffed full of Denso tape, then they can't collect mud or salt! A good coat of wax first is a good idea, though.
Regular generous spraying of rustproofing wax - or used engine oil if on a tight budget - is essential. You'll get filthy whenever you go underneath, but that beats repairing rust holes all the time. Have a good poke around underneath pretty regularly, initially 4 times ayear would be sensible, but once it's settled down after a couple of years once before the MOT will be adequate.
Could go on and on and on here, but to finish for now, make sure the front trunnions are regularly filled with gear oil - NOT GREASE - and bear in mind the 6k mile interval recommended in the original handbook (assuming you have one) is really optimistic, you'll find every thousand miles (or every time you have the front end jacked up) works much better. If the top trunnion seals are shot then wrapping with more Denso is a fairly effective bodge until you have to disassemble it all for something else... Oh, and I've never found anything better than ordinary Vaseline for lubricating the door striker plates, for some reason they seem to need doing pretty often. And most importantly...
Have fun ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) |
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Jim.Walker
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Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Rick wrote: | Welcome to the forum Jack.
One of the more vulnerable areas on Heralds is the chassis, in particular the rear outriggers that fan out at the rear, underneath the boot floor, and also those that run from the centre chassis, out to the edges behind the screw-on sills. They can rot away so keep any build up of mud to a minimum, and if possible spray old oil/Waxoyl/??? around to protect the metal.
Rick |
Here is a conundrum for you Rick!
MY Gentry has a Herald/Vitesse chassis. When built in 1984 the chassis outriggers were no more than scrap metal and were replaced before fitting the new body.
As you imply they were the constant curse of the breed.
In 2012, 28 years and 100,000 miles on they are as good as new! With no precautions beyond initial painting. It puzzles me.
The only change which might have an effect is that it was converted to negative earth in 1984.
To add a little more. My Trunnions have, for tho whole of the time I have had the car (from 39,000miles to the present more than 150,000 miles) never had any treatment other than regular lubrication with Castrolease. With no replacement. If properly cared for using grease I cannot subscribe to the "oil it" brigade. If grease was a problem, mine would surely have succumbed years ago?
It seems to me that this Trunnion oiling is a bit like the unleaded fuel debate. Somebody somewhere said "...........................
Only this one was probably started by someone who never greased OR oiled his trunnions regularly or properly.
Jim. _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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Rick Site Admin
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22449 Location: UK
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 1735 Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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No Rick, you're right - oil is what Triumph recommended. The problem with grease - as I understand it - is that it has a greater tendency to solidify and block everything up, then water gets into the top and starts to corrode the vertical link, which eventually snaps, though the same can happen with oil lubrication... Jim's grease applications have obviously been regular enough to avoid this problem, as far as the actual lubricating properties are concerned there's probably not much to choose between the two. I wonder, though, how much less the Gentry body weighs compared to a standard Herald or Vitesse?
The unleaded fuel debate is something else, I used an additive - Castrol Valvemaster, on the FBHVC recommended list - to play it safe, yet still suffered valve seat recession and had to go down the cylinder head conversion route, so who knows? |
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Inglewood
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Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 183 Location: Stone, Staffordshire
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Oil was specified in the front lower trunnions by Triumph as, when the steering was turned, the oil 'flowed' up and down the threaded trunnion. If grease was used it would be ejected and would not flow back causing premature failure. There were spacial hand-held oil dispensers for this operation. Not to be mixed up with grease-guns. |
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MVPeters
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Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Northern MA, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: GT6 |
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A friend has asked me to help re-commission his MkI GT6. He's used it a few times each year for short trips, but it's never been serviced. It's some distance away so I can't easily see it before we start work.
The first thing he wants to do is lubricate the front end. I know about the oil/grease thing & I have a small grease gun full of gear oil.
He says the nipples are either sheared off, or there are plugs in their place - I think I've heard of these plugs before & I assume that nipples would restrict the steering if left in place. Any truth to this?
So then the other question is what nipples to use. Are the originals the very fine thread ones? These will be hard to source quickly (we're in the US). The local parts stores have dozens of different ones, but all AF, metric or a tapered "self-tapping" thread.I'm thinking I can use the latter. Can I leave them in place?
Any bright ideas? _________________ Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S' |
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Inglewood
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Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 183 Location: Stone, Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Grease Nipple - 1/8 inch BSP - 45ยบ Angle, should be OK and can be left in place. I recall some uprights had blanking screws but these wereoften replaced with nipples.
Replacement nipples are readily available by mail order. |
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MVPeters
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Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Northern MA, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Inglewood - that's a great help.
I just checked the local parts place & they have 2 possibilities:
one marked 1/8" - 28 - which I think is the fine parallel thread I mentioned
one marked 1/8" & nothing! This has a very slightly tapered thread.
I think I'd better get one off the car & compare them. _________________ Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S' |
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 1735 Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think there were some early adverts for the Herald which stated that there were no grease nipples, and that's what the plugs were for... not
exactly a lie, but hardly truthful either ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) |
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Inglewood
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Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 183 Location: Stone, Staffordshire
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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When the Herald was introduced in 1959 other makers vehicles had grease nipples on hubs, upper/lower inner/outer trunnions, track rod ends, steering idlers, Hardy Spicers, gear linkages etc. The Herald sales pitch was that you 'do not need a grease gun' (I am sure they would not have mentioned 'nipples' in adverts).
Ok, a 'grease gun' was not required, but an 'oil gun'was needed. |
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Rick Site Admin
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22449 Location: UK
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Jim.Walker
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Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Haynes Triumph GT6 and Vitesse Owners Workshop Manual of 1974 specifies Castrolease as the lubricant for steering parts.
Castrolease IS a GREASE (though a very light one). Obviously HMP greases etc are NOT suitable.
CASTROLEASE is what I have ALWAYS used. To my knowledge, with no trouble or failures on any Herald or Vitesse I have worked on. Certainly, my Vitesse is still running on the original trunnions at over 160,000 miles. Castrolease or similar greases were the lubricants almost universally used in the days when Lubrication Bays were the fashion.
I consider oil to be too lacking in viscosity to stay put!
I also think that Trunnion failure is caused more often by lack of care than by the wrong lubricant.
Obviously I do not know anything and am lacking in practical experience!
Incidentally of 3 vitesses and 3 Heralds in my care over the last 50 years, NOT A Single ONE has had a trunnion or other steering failure!
Jim. _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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