Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Ellis · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: Early Renault?

This , once again, is a photo which was given to me by an elderly local resident which was given to him by an elderly relative.
The information that I was given about the car is that it was the first petrol driven motor car in the village of Penmachno in North Wales.

I did not wish to disagree with or contradict him but the car and the photo appear to be from the latter part of the 1900s or later even.
I know little about cars of this period but I think it is a Renault by the shape of the bonnet and it was London registered.

Do any of you have further thoughts or information?

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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

Inglewood · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject:

Lxxxx ran from 1904 to 1921.

The gents hairstyle appears post WW1. If the image was before WW1 I would have expected a hat to be worn.

So I agree, possibly post WW1. Looks like the car had had some hard use!

Ellis · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:41 am Post subject:

Mog · Joined: 30 Dec 2007 Posts: 661 Location: Sydney

Nothing like a starting handle on a 2 - speed Morgan ! Ground all the skin off my knuckles on the right hand, on the concrete. Can still see the damage 50 yrs. later. Always had my series 2a Landrover start on the hand when in remote parts of Australia. I would practice to make sure.
Learned my lesson and always used a leather glove to start a Morgan 3 wheeler. Wish I had one now !

roverdriver · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:02 am Post subject:

Not a Renault, they have a distinctive curve in the top tank of the radiator. Not a Hurtu, it has a step in the curve of the top tank. Could be a Theo Schneider, but can't be sure. There were quite a few makes with the dashboard radiator and coal scuttle bonnet.
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Peter_L · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject:

I bet it was fun to drive at night.

Mog · Joined: 30 Dec 2007 Posts: 661 Location: Sydney

I did drive around with only side lights / parking lights. It was legal in the UK, was very interesting, with no street lights and somebody coming the other way with the head lights on..... A full moon was a help, with no clouds.

Ellis · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject:

Ladies and genlemen.
I have an answer for the identity of this car and I will give credit on here to the two people who solved the mystery. They are two members of the OLLR forum, John Pirate and 176".
The car is a French built Darracq from around 1908 but what is unusual about it is that it has a very heavy duty and non standard radiator from the Maquis company. Maquis built bespoke extra parts such as radiators for expeditions to North Africa and elsewhere and this explains the lack of any side covers from the scuttle bonnet backwards to the bulkhead mounted radiator.
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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

Salopian · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Newport Shropshire

Sorry I have to disagree - I don't believe this is a Darracq who did not so far as I am aware use scuttle radiators. I'm not sure what you mean by missing side covers - it all looks as usual for such a radiator mount to me anyway the air has to get in somehow.

I've a fancy it is an Arrol Johnston possibly a 15.9 hp of 1909 - certain features seem to point this way. I've unfortunately lent out my Veteran reference books out but on the expected return tomorrow will do some research.
I'll be happy to be proved wrong as I could well be.
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Ellis · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject:

There is absolutely no need to apologise for disagreeing.

If you can positively identify this car or offer an alternative opinion then please do so. I know very little about cars of this period which is why I posted the topic in the first place. Another make thrown in to the hat is De Dion.

If any of you have suggestions then please voice or post them on here.

Ellis
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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

roverdriver · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:12 am Post subject:

Darracq is an unlikely contender. They used a coal scuttle bonnet on early models, but those had an underslung tubular radiator. By 1904 Darracq had adopted a frontal radiator as seen on 'Genevieve'.

Arrol Johston is a strong likelihood, although photos that I have found so far do have a slightly different curve to the top of the radiator top tank.

May the hunt continue!
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47p2 · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow

Could it be a Phoenix 11.9hp?

Sadly not much on the net about the 11.9 and no pictures but there are similarities
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One of Britain's Fine Cars

47p2 · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow

Just found a 1913 Phoenix Roadster for sale in Oz...

Clicky
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One of Britain's Fine Cars

Ellis · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject:

The Phoenix and the one in "our" photo are all but identical bar for the running boards.

Congratulations 47p2!
Well done and thank you.

Ellis

Edit

There is in fact one for sale in the UK now for £13950. My computer skills are very basic but if you put the car description into Google search and scroll down the page to near the bottom, there it is.
I would have thought, not knowing any better though, that something as rare as this would command a higher price.
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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

roverdriver · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:30 am Post subject:

Great find, 47p2! We can all stop wracking our brains now!
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