Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[alastairq]

There are several warnings going around in the press concerning the legality of LED light sources.

One example reported concerned a MoT failure due to the tester 'being told' by the owner about the fitment of LED light sources.

I understand the reasons for fitting LED units, including the much lower current draw, being beneficial to marginal charging systems [especially at night?}.....indeed, I have recently purchased a 1967 car, which has LED side & indicator bulbs replaced by LED items....yet has recently passed an MoT [depends whether the proud owner announces to the tester with pride, the presence of LED units?]....so I am faced with a mass bulb replacement task....grrrrr!!

The question that my warped mind raises is...the issue is the non-standard light source.

In this instance, LED light sources.

But, AFAIK, nobody has raised concerns about the non-standard [original] headlight bulbs that we have been fitting for decades?

How many of you have vehicles which started out life with ordinary, tungsten{??} bulbs,[ the round, globe type,] yet have fitted QI or Halogen bulbs [the long thin-glass types]?

An upgrade which was pretty commonplace 20 or 30 years ago?


Yet, since they were not the same as the original bulbs, do they not fall into the same category of a non-standard [ie, marked?] light source?

Perhaps we need our pet lobbyists to get an amendment to the lighting regulations, to permit these things...even if only on a limited use basis? [IE, specifying which of the mandatory lights can be fitted with these things?]

Luckily, those of us with pre-1960 vehicles may have an easier time of it....[sorry, Mr VOSA inspector, carbide lighting was in compliance with the original regulations..].....indeed, the most common bulb type on my Dellow are Christmas tree lights..... [festooon bulbs!!!]

Next thing we'll know, heaters will be illegal if the car didn't have them from new!!

[BigJohn]

Not seen anything about it, how much is anecdotal reporting? I've never had a problem with LED side lights and MOT's before.

[alastairq]

The topic has been mentioned on here.....and Practical Classics has a paragraph too, with some sort of 'advice' from the DfT..[not sure how much credence to place on any such advice, knowing how the Civil Service operates, it's likely the advice came from a non-expert, perhaps a D grade or below, who has the job of fending off press questions?]

There has also been mention in one or two of the weeklies too.

Nothing like a bit of scaremongering, however....and I pity the poor beggers who have been selling these LEDs...

But, mention [and the accompanying sharp-intakes-of-breath?] of this issue so far hasn't come up with any sort of solution, or 'way forward?'

[BigJohn]

How do new cars with LED rear lights and DRL's fare then? It's an improvement towards the safety of current standards, similar to discrete indicators fitted to cars equipped with semaphores (or no indicators). It sounds like a scare bandwagon to jump on.

[Ray White]

It sounds like complete twaddle to me too. An M.O.T. inspector would not be bothered so long as the lights worked as they should.

[Riley Blue]

AFAIK, fitting LEDs would only be 'illegal' if they weren't E marked; vehicles registered in the UK after 1986 are required to have E marked bulbs for road use. Further reading:

http://www.qeedon.com/how-to-identify-headlights-e-mark-approved/

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/codes/codes.html
_________________
David

1963 Riley 1.5
1965 Riley 1.5

[petelang]

[alastairq]

I agree with all the sentiment expressed....!

What I have seen out there, are some more commonplace 'classics'...[sorry Rick, I simply hate that description!!]....fitted with what look like purpose-made side light arrays....[Sometimes as a surround to headlights?]

On my recent acquisition, the headlight glasses [lenses?] are quite clear, and the side light bulbs can be clearly seen to be LED-types.

Yet, no MoT-like comments seemed to have been made.

As a popular interest..[nay, popular investment source, perhaps, these days??].....old vehicles seem to attract quite a few scare-mongering issues.

Like, the issue of proposed changes to the MoT-test-necessity?
[I note, the MoT test is ...quite mistakenly, in my view, seen as an important element of street-credibility in our game. Much tub-thumping, and high-horse mounting seen in the press.....??]

[JohnDale]

Hi folks, my modern Volvo V70 has LEDs in the brake lights as standard(not just a bulb replacement) but 3 LEd packs when including the high level light.
I believe there are others in marker/side lights but haven't bothered to look as long as they are shining. When I had the Triumph 2000Mk1 I had LEDs in everything & HIDs in the headlights - never had a problem with MOTs as the lights all worked as should & the HIDs were properly set - I know the HIDs should have had leveling & washers but were never a problem. The Corsair has standard bulbs except for yellows in the indicators(behind yellow lenses) & LEDs in the reversing lights(much more light) Surely anything that makes our vehicles more visible is a good thing? Cheers,JD.
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1958 Ford Zephyr Mk2 Convertible
1976 Ford Granada Ghia.

[MikeEdwards]

I think the key with regard to MOT testing is down to the tester. Are they going to strip my back lights down and check whether the bulbs are E-marked? I doubt it. OK, something as obvious as an HID kit might raise some eyebrows, but then again maybe not if everything is pointing in the right direction. I know lots of people sailing through MOTs every year with silver-on-black registration plates on cars too new to pass an MOT with them on, and not by swapping the plates either side of the test.

[Paul fairall]

Spoke with one of our mot testers and he didn't seem bothered about LED lamps not being original fitment but did mention headlight washers on HID.

[JohnDale]

Hi all, just paid a visit to my local (friendly) testing station. As the tester confirmed,they are not allowed to dismantle anything during a test - they do not need to see if bulbs are E marked & as long as the lights are working correctly(which they check on a functional check) LEDs are no problem.
All the best,JD.
_________________
1958 Ford Zephyr Mk2 Convertible
1976 Ford Granada Ghia.

[alastairq]

I agree with all those comments.

However, they are all, in essence, contrary to reports in the press.

Since this is the case, then isn't it about time these issues were placed in a proper perspective?

Before the public-at-large get hold of the wrong idea?

[There is no argument regarding what an MoT tester cannot take apart...but, what about a VOSA inspector?]

[mikeC]

[lowdrag]

I've been thinking of fitting these for a while, but since I hardly drive the car at night any more I've done nothing.

http://www.welshent.com/product_info.php?sku=LEDE1NEG&name=E-Type_Series_1_LED_Tail_Lamps__Negative_&cPath=179_195_196

As regards the headlights, since they are two candle power I may well do that in preference.

EWTA The tail lights shown are negative earth, but they do come in positive earth as well.