Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rick]

Should certain one-off, particularly historic, or otherwise unique, vehicles be listed, to prevent inappropriate restorations, modifications and so on being undertaken on them?

Or would it just lead to officialdom getting unnecessarily involved with private owners and the cars they own?

It happens with buildings already, should/could it be applied to vehicles also?

RJ
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Rick - Admin
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[Riley Blue]

Hell no, there's enough officialdom ruling our lives as it is!
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David

1963 Riley 1.5
1965 Riley 1.5

[JohnDale]

Having seen what happens with grade two listed buildings I would agree with Riley. It appears to be a way for councils etc to get old properties restored by new purchasers, to the way they want & the purchaser has no say in the matter. I don't really understand why anyone would buy a listed building these days. Can you imagine an official approaching you to query why you are restoring your vehicle & telling you that it must be hand painted & nothing welded but bolted cos that's how it was done back in the day? Life moves on but will officialdom keep up - I think not. Cheers,JD.
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1958 Ford Zephyr Mk2 Convertible
1976 Ford Granada Ghia.

[lowdrag]

There are enough of duplications of important cars already, one having the chassis and the other the engine for example. Ferrari have their own authentification department of important cars already. If we get the government involved we are one step away from the profit element being taxed as CGT. Anyway, just like "what is a classic" this opens one hell of a debate as to what actually is an important car.

[Rootes75]

The only thing I would say is that in some cases where a specifically important historic vehicle is found that maybe something should be enforced not to scrap it or strip it, maybe like a preservation order??

But I do agree really that there is already too much interference in the movement.

[colwyn500]

Definite no.
The registration number is the only thing I think should be prevented from being changed.

[ukdave2002]

[lowdrag]

[mikeC]

On balance I don't think listing is a good idea.
If a car is truly of historical importance, then I think there is every likelihood that an owner will appreciate and respect it. I really don't think any future owner is going to transform the Birkin single-seater into another Le Mans replica, for instance.
A well-preserved original car deserves to be left alone, in my view, but having owned an eighty-plus year old car with less than 12,000 miles on the clock (18,000 when I sold it) I am very aware of the conflicts that such ownership presents.
At the moment there is a delightful Aston Martin DB2 (two owners, 80,000 miles, gorgeous original interior - you get the picture) which is for sale by the Aston Workshop in Durham. Their sales pitch describes it as:
Owned by the same person for the last 40 years, despite his best efforts, this classic Aston now requires a full restoration to bring it back to its former glory. As such it will make an ideal basis for one of our world class, 'Bespoke' restorations.
The prospect of such a reconstruction, involving modified brakes, suspension, steering, engine and gearbox, and incorporating such things as central locking, power steering and air conditioning, horrifies me, but that is the buyer's choice. If it was my car, I would leave it just as it is, but I wouldn't want anyone looking over my shoulder and telling me what I can, or cannot, do with my property.

[ka]

There are two items that may interest others here.
The "new" MOT is still on the cards (and yes I know pre-60 are exempt, at the moment!)
I have carried out a few alterations to my Morgan, I at least like to stand a chance of stopping when I press the brake pedal, and the thrill of wondering which side it would pull to today was becoming stale, so I have fitted TLS brakes. I also enjoy the pleasures of a carburetor that meters the air/fuel ratio a little more accurately that the "Noah" version fitted by Ford. The point is, I have notified the Insurance Company, and they were understanding, but if it was listed, I would not 100% guarantee I would still be her with all my limbs functioning.
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KA

Better three than four.

[lowdrag]

There is a confusion there in the definition of "listing" and "homologating". No one is saying a type of car is set in stone and can't evolve, just that certain specific cars would, due to racing history for example, be preserved. Here in France you can't theoretically change to a different type of air filter because it isn't homologated, and importing any replica is impossible. But in the UK upgrading brakes, fitting electronic ignition, changing carburettors don't make a car illegal, just safer. I mean (whisper it) my radio can now get FM for goodness sake!
Let sleeping dogs lie. Any changes would be for the worse for all of us, I fear.

[MikeEdwards]

I think the problem is who would be in charge of enforcing something like that. The same is the case for the proposed "no modifications" rule in the MOT that was talked about. Government departments don't have a good record for seeing common sense in these matters, and from what I see on the numerous television programmes it seems that listed building consent and English Heritage approval for work on historical buildings seems to vary from totally reasonable to completely pig-headed, depending on which individual you're dealing with. While a policy might exist, it's usually open to interpretation which isn't always a good thing.

I would like to see some means of making sure that the guy who owns a prototype whatever-it-is can't ruin it, but I wouldn't like to be the receiver of any such enforcement. The people that understand why their one-off or ex-works racer shouldn't be modified are the people who don't need a rule to be enforced.