Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[kevin2306]

What are my options for fitting rear seat belts in my 1965 singer vogue?

Many thanks

Kev

[ka]

Logic would say there are no mounting points, therefore the options are based on how much work you want to do.
Should you go for lap strap, non-inertia, this is the easier option. Remove the back seat base and upper, then find either some thick areas of the floor area at the sides, and in the middle, drill holes and use a thicker grade of steel plate behind the mounting bolts underneath the car. These will not meet any approval, but will give a degree of restraint.
Traditional inertia-reel, lap and diagonal belts are trickier. Same system at the base, but the diagonal section will prove trickier. The inertia 'bit' of the belt would need mounting in the boot area, again on a decent bit of metal, with a steel plate behind the bolt. The most difficult bit will be the mount over the shoulder; if you can get to the pillar, and there is room to mount the loop, then this point would need re-enforcing. Should a shoulder mount be out of the question, the other option is to divert the belt over the back of the seat from the inertia reel.
The final option is to go for a full-harness system, that again is a similar route to fit. Whichever route you choose, find some decent metal to mount to, and use large repair washers/backing plate behind the mounting bolt.
Whichever you go for, will be tricky, will not be approved, and will not comply with any MOT requirements, and therefore you may fail your MOT due to rear seat belts not being fitted to approved points.
Best of luck!
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KA

Better three than four.

[kevin2306]

thanks for that Ka, lap belts are the way forward i think, just need to find a period set in a similar colour to the front ones.
For the MOT id suggest taking them out or tucking them down the seat squab out of sight.

Kev

[D4B]

It will pass the MOT no worries as long as you use reinforcing plates, I done it in a splitscreen VW camper, no probs with MOT.
The plates do really need welding in on the underside though I have seen people just put the plate in under and bolt it up..... perhaps go talk to you local independant MOT tester for clarification.

The plates can be bought here among other places:

http://www.justkampers.com/seatbelt-mounting-plates-pair.html

[Rick]

Not sure I'd much fancy lap-only belts, they may be slightly better than no belts at all, but can be pretty damaging in a shunt from what I've read.

RJ
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[47Jag]

We were fitting non inertia lap and diagonal seat belts to Fords in the early sixties (63-64). They were made by Irving Airchute and used eyebolts and clevis pin shackles with reinforcing plates in the floor. The plates were about 3" diameter and 1/8" thick. Kangol did a good inertia one about 1978-80 that I fitted to my Princess. They had an adjustable diagonal part that was good for kids in that you could lower the part that crossed their chests. In fact I think they are still in my garage somewhere. I saw them recently.

Art

[ka]

I agree with the lap strap outcome, but they are better than nothing! Seat belts are pretty good in a relatively low to medium head-on, for side impact and most other impact angles they are of limited use. I say low to medium, because in high speed non-crumple zone cars, the passenger cell becomes the crumple zone. But do not misinterpret my comments, I would always recommend seat belts, even a minor, low speed impact without seat belts makes a real mess of the drivers face and chest on the steering wheel, fractured jaw,broken ribs and punctured lungs are a major issue!, and it does not take much speed to project a passenger through the windscreen (remember the ads from the 60's and 70's), back seat passengers are a different area. One of the ideas for rear seat belts is to avoid the rear passenger killing the person in the front seat, a front seat, belt restrained impact is bad enough, without the inertia from 2 ton of passenger hitting you from behind. Even a lap strap will hold the rear seat passenger, they have the advantage of having a nice soft seat in-front of them to slow down the impact speed.
I always bare in mind in the modern car I have, crumple zones, air bags, impact triggered seat belt pre-tensioners, seat belts secured through non-rusty steel, and ABS brakes. When driving the old one, I have the benefit of slower speed, but that does not stop the others hitting me, and seat belt mounting into ash frames are not exactly compatible.
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KA

Better three than four.

[winchman]

Have a chat with this company
http://www.securon.co.uk/
I found them to be very helpful.
I would only use Lap belts as a last resort
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It will come in handy even if you never use it.

[P3steve]

I would follow Kevin2306 and his advice about taking them out or hiding them before an MOT. I fitted a lap/shoulder belt to my 1940s Rover in the back for my young granddaughter so she could come out with us, I don’t mind taking the risk for my self but would never expect a minor to do so. I used a belt fixed belt from a 1960s Rover and bolted it in using proper seatbelt reinforcing plates in the floor and into a cross member in the boot, it wasn’t possible to bolt through a chassis member on the floor as the Rover P3 has a three quarter chassis that ends just before the seat pan so I doubled up the seat belt reinforcing plates with a large 1/8 spreader plate as well.
As well as a fully trained mechanic I used to also be an MOT tester so trust me that mounting wasn’t going anywhere but my Local MOT chappie said if it was on the car he would have to include it in the MOT but if it was not type approved he would fail it. So now I just tuck it out of sight behind the seat.
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[Rootes75]

I fitted Land Rover Series 3 lap belts in the back of my 47 Minx so we feel safer taking the kids out. They are bolted with plates into the floor frame under the seat and can be concealed away when not in use.