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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: Spark plugs in older engines - fouling/shorting |
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I've been having plug fouling problems with my Veteran car and yesterday I had a fascinating conversation with Tim at the Green Spark Plug Company and he pointed me to the link below.
It would seem that as fuels get worse and engines get more computer controlled we will have to find a way round the plug fouling problem.
My case is a perfect example: I fitted new Champion D16s and ran it a tickover for about 15 minutes whilst I dialled in the idle settings and then test drove the car for about 10 miles. A couple of days later I drove the car for a total of 90 miles but after 40 the performance had dropped hugely and then got so bad I barely made it home. The jetting was very rich indeed but older plugs would just have needed brushed clean. I rejetted to lean it right out but the car still ran badly.
New plugs were fitted (NGK AB-6) and the points and ignition timing reset (along with an earthing problem being sorted) and the engine runs brilliantly even after 50 miles and plenty of tickover time.
I'll be trying out the oven cleaner trick today to see if that saves me £20 each time a oil up some plugs and I've also ordered some Champion D21 plugs which will cope even better and see how they go.
http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/fouling-shortingout-problem-modern-plugs-champion-vs-ngk/ _________________ Richard |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Whilst my Singer is a lot younger that your car, when I was having ignition issues and eventually fitted a new electronic ignition distributor, I ordered a set of brand new champion plugs of the type recommended in the origional handbook.
The car refused to run correctly on them so I swapped the originals back in and she was sweet as a nut once more (ordered a new set of the same and swapped them). I suppose the 1st owner must have made the plug spec change when he fitted the Lucas Ignition system?
Worth experimenting with a few different types id say..
As for cleaning, I use my ultrasonic cleaning bath with some decent degreaser in it (along with warm water). brings them up as new and doesnt appear to have any ill effects..(im sure some will say otherwise)
Kev |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ultrasonic with degreaser sounds even better than oven cleaner. More expensive and less portable tho _________________ Richard |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Rdover wrote: | Ultrasonic with degreaser sounds even better than oven cleaner. More expensive and less portable tho |
My bath was only £22 delivered, use it for loads of cleaning..superb on carb parts
Kev |
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D4B
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 2083 Location: Hampshire UK
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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kevin2306 wrote: | My bath was only £22 delivered, use it for loads of cleaning..superb on carb parts
Kev |
Hi Kev,
from where?
Thanks Steve |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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D4B wrote: | kevin2306 wrote: | My bath was only £22 delivered, use it for loads of cleaning..superb on carb parts
Kev |
Hi Kev,
from where?
Thanks Steve |
I will look later and report back
Kev |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I tried cleaning with oven cleaner. I'm told Mr Muscle is the one to use.
First, one that failed to clean and is as oily as removed from the engine (noting that it is wet from being rinsed)
One that cleaned up perfectly
and one that cleaned up a bit
_________________ Richard |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7121 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Is AB6 not a bit too cold a plug for a very low compression engine?
Something hotter like AB2 might prevent oiling.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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goneps
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 601 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Can't say I've had the slightest trouble with plugs on the '36 Morris Eight. Admittedly this country is not yet cursed by the dreaded ethanol (some petrol shops sell a mix, but most don't).
Recently I replaced the set of NGK B6HS that'd been in use for more than twenty years (35,000 miles), probably an unnecessary expense (picture shows one of the old plugs before cleaning about 2,000 miles ago). Have used only NGK on all my vehicles for about 35 years, because I believe they're the best.
As for cleaning, my quick and effective (ie. lazy) method is a thin, soft rotary wire brush on the grinder. Works like a charm.
Richard
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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baconsdozen
Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 1119 Location: Under the car.
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D4B
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 2083 Location: Hampshire UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Kev!
Also if you look in their shop they do lots of bigger ones too...
I will probably buy the same one as you though.
Do you need any chemicals or is it just plain old tap water that's needed?
Cheers Steve |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Works ok with warm water but put chemical in and its so much better.
I use a 20% mix of fairly hot water and a citrus household cleaner. I would like one of the larger units as you could obviously clean larger itema such as carb bodies (mine will do a body but you need to rotate it and do the process in sections)
Some of the units around £100 have in-built heaters etc. worthwhile ringing them for an ex-demo unit.
Kev |
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Rdover
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 413
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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peter scott wrote: | Is AB6 not a bit too cold a plug for a very low compression engine?
Something hotter like AB2 might prevent oiling.
Peter |
I've been recommended (and ordered) champion D-21s. The whole hotter colder thing confuses me! _________________ Richard |
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Ashley
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 1426 Location: Near Stroud, Glos
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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NGK are the easiest to understand and the best plugs.
Heat range is easier to understand that lawn mowers, tractors and stationary engines have low numbers like 2, Rolls-Royce's 5, most cars 6 or 7 and Manx Nortons and racing cars 10.
A means 18mm thread and B is how long the thread is. P is a projecting nose.
Hope this helps.
Ash |
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