Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: 1937 Morris 8 - dry seized engine. |
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Well, I threatened to get my 1937 Morris 8 Series 1 back on the road, just for fun. Now my son has decided to marry his lady this year and would love to arrive at the church in Old Morris so I guess I'd better get on with it!
To this end I've dug it out from the back of the garage today and washed it, emptied it of the fishing tackle that I've stored in it for many years and pumped the tyres up. A bit. After 20 years of standing all 5 tyres were still holding air and continue to do so.
I was disappointed, but not surprised, to find that the engine doesn't turn over, even with my full weight on the end of the starting handle. I'm assuming a dry siezure as the car was driven to it's spot all those years ago, and was running fine.
So far I've removed the spark plugs and poured light engine oil into the cylinders. What else should I do, please?
All advice welcomed.
Ian |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22472 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Diesel can be good for freeing engines.
When I bought my '32 Minor 2-seater, the engine was seized on that too. At first I'd assumed one (or more) piston(s) had seized in the bore(s), in fact one or two valves were stuck in their guides, causing the engine to be stuck, so it might be the same problem with your Morris 8.
RJ
(PS it sounds like your project warrants its own thread in the Your Cars section ) _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Rick wrote: | Diesel can be good for freeing engines.
When I bought my '32 Minor 2-seater, the engine was seized on that too. At first I'd assumed one (or more) piston(s) had seized in the bore(s), in fact one or two valves were stuck in their guides, causing the engine to be stuck, so it might be the same problem with your Morris 8.
RJ
(PS it sounds like your project warrants its own thread in the Your Cars section ) |
Rick, thanks for the tip about diesel, I may well give it a go if the light oil route doesn't work.
Tomorrow I'm going in to work, not for anything business driven but to collect my Imperial/BSW/BSF tools and a couple of trolley jacks, axle stands and all things pertaining to vehicle advancement. Oh, and bigger hammers......
I'm going to try a socket or large ring spanner on the crank pulley nut and see if I can get the engine to cooperate into at least turning over. A length of scaff tube over a 1/2" square drive power bar can be persuasive, I find. Maybe I'll dig out my collection of 3/4" square drive kit, left over from when I used to repair motorway construction bulldozers and stuff. The very sight of this lot should frighten the Morris into rotation, if not actual running.
I'll report back. Is there some way that I can transfer this lot to the Morris bit on the Your Cars section?
Ian |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22472 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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welder wrote: | Rick wrote: | Diesel can be good for freeing engines.
When I bought my '32 Minor 2-seater, the engine was seized on that too. At first I'd assumed one (or more) piston(s) had seized in the bore(s), in fact one or two valves were stuck in their guides, causing the engine to be stuck, so it might be the same problem with your Morris 8.
RJ
(PS it sounds like your project warrants its own thread in the Your Cars section ) |
Rick, thanks for the tip about diesel, I may well give it a go if the light oil route doesn't work.
Tomorrow I'm going in to work, not for anything business driven but to collect my Imperial/BSW/BSF tools and a couple of trolley jacks, axle stands and all things pertaining to vehicle advancement. Oh, and bigger hammers......
I'm going to try a socket or large ring spanner on the crank pulley nut and see if I can get the engine to cooperate into at least turning over. A length of scaff tube over a 1/2" square drive power bar can be persuasive, I find. Maybe I'll dig out my collection of 3/4" square drive kit, left over from when I used to repair motorway construction bulldozers and stuff. The very sight of this lot should frighten the Morris into rotation, if not actual running.
I'll report back. Is there some way that I can transfer this lot to the Morris bit on the Your Cars section?
Ian |
I'll move it over for you now, let us know how you get on
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop |
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MVPeters
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Northern MA, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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One old trick is to hang something heavy, like another engine block, off the end of the scaffolding pipe, a couple of feet off the ground.
Just leave it there.
There should be a loud thud in the middle of the night. _________________ Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S' |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4124 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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welder wrote: |
I'm going to try a socket or large ring spanner on the crank pulley nut and see if I can get the engine to cooperate into at least turning over. A length of scaff tube over a 1/2" square drive power bar can be persuasive, I find. Maybe I'll dig out my collection of 3/4" square drive kit, left over from when I used to repair motorway construction bulldozers and stuff. The very sight of this lot should frighten the Morris into rotation, if not actual running.
I'll report back. Is there some way that I can transfer this lot to the Morris bit on the Your Cars section?
Ian |
H Ian
Just be careful, it’s quite easy to sheer the starter dog off, I have done it is similar circumstances on my 8 as the thread into the crank is much smaller than the crank nut!
Cheers
Dave |
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Kelsham
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 349 Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I would try heating the pistons, Blow lamp, or heated oil. then work the crank back and forth, Being heavy handed will likely cause damage.
Don't ask.
Regards Kels |
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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MVPeters wrote: | One old trick is to hang something heavy, like another engine block, off the end of the scaffolding pipe, a couple of feet off the ground.
Just leave it there.
There should be a loud thud in the middle of the night. |
Mike, I've taken a similar, but different, route.
I've set the starting handle into the "pull-up" position and placed a length of timber beneath it so that part of the weight of the car is pushing down onto the handle. There was a loud thud in the middle of the night. I fell out of bed, probably abetted by my wife. She'll swear I was snoring, if challenged.
Dave, I've been thinking along the same lines. I shall, if necessary, devise something that will enable me to grip the crank pulley to aid rotation, having removed the dynamo belt, of course.
Onwards and upwards. All my son can talk about is his upcoming nuptials, all I can think about is the ever increasing list of Morris things to do. One of which is to devise a pair of drivers' seat runners. I lent mine as patterns to a friend, years ago. They were in his Rover Vitesse when it was stolen, never to be recovered! I've got the bits that bolt to the base of the seat but not the bits that they slide in/fix to the wooden tapered thingies that bolt to the floor.
Is it worth persuading my son that Winter Weddings are very fashionable? Winter 2014 looking favourite
Ian |
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ha! A quantum leap forward. I've found the keys for Old Morris.
Well, I say found. I mentioned to my wife that I'd need to be looking for them fairly soon and she looked at me over her glasses. Usually a bad portent, I'll admit. However, her response was in the positive. "If they're the ones with a 1937 penny coin as the keyfob, they're in the corner of your sock drawer".
I married well. Coin is currently soaking in Daddies Brown Sauce for added shinyness.
Ian |
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RotaryBri
Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 465 Location: Warwick
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Welder,
Will Daddies sauce still work since Heinz moved production of it (HP sauce as well) from Brum to Holland? _________________ Keep Torqueing,
RotaryBri
1976 NSU Ro80 |
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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RotaryBri wrote: | Welder,
Will Daddies sauce still work since Heinz moved production of it (HP sauce as well) from Brum to Holland? |
It worked a treat, Bri.
So, that's the keyfob refurbed. Better move on to bigger things
I bought a rather nice black leather dog collar from the local pet shop today. That's the spare wheel retaining strap sorted, then.
Ian |
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Dog collar now fitted and spare wheel retained, with a certain amount of poshness.
In fitting new collar/strap I had to remove the rear seat and I realised that not only was the blue leather grubby but it held all the flexibility and suppleness of a Kellogs Cornflakes box. A rummage unearthed some leather cleaner/conditioner and I have to say that, after several applications of the stuff, I'm pleased and surprised with the results. Front seats next........
I've bought a pair of universal seat runners off eBay and shall have a go at making them fit tomorrow. Dimensionally they're very close to the originals which got lost/stolen so should be ok.
A bit of a bonus, earlier today. I decided to remove the drain plug from the bottom of the fuel tank to see how many small dead animals would fall out. Instead, petrol! Quite a lot of it. The fuel gauge has never worked so I just used to put petrol in it whenever I drove it, usually more than I'd use, so it was seldom low on fuel. No signs of rust or marsupials in the outflow so I'll just blow the system through with an air line, from pump connection to tank. Tomorrow. Possibly.
Ian |
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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New seat runners fitted today and work perfectly. They're invisible when installed so I won't feel bad about using modern bits. Even managed to reuse the original knob on the release catch.
While rear seat was out I decided to have a mess with the rear window roller blind which had never worked in my 30 years of ownership. Now it does.
Interior has been vacced (?) and all leather is now clean, conditioned and becoming far more supple.
Will bring the portable air-compressor home from work tomorrow and blow-through the fuel supply lines and try to remove the 20 years worth of spiders webs from beneath the car. Will also bring some diesel to pour down the spark plug holes as the light oil isn't doing a fat lot of good. Fingers crossed, Rick.
Still need a battery as old one is scrap. I've no idea wether or not the electric fuel pump is functioning without a battery on the car, although I have new contacts etc should they be needed. Also have a top-end gasket set for the engine, although I'm still hoping that I won't need it.
Date for Son's nuptials has been set for 14th July so I have a specific to aim for. No Church after all, they're having a Civil Wedding and the chosen venue is less than 2 miles from here. Result!
Ian |
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PAUL BEAUMONT
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Barnsley S. Yorks
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming your engine is still stuck, Rick's comment is well worth considering. I have found, over the years, that engines more often sieze in the valves than in the bores especially if they have been stored reasonably well, as yours seems to have been. Another trick worth trying is to attempt to turn it backwards not forwards. You may need to do this withe something like a screwdriver in the starter ring gear.
Good luck!!
Paul |
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welder
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 265 Location: North Warwickshire
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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PAUL BEAUMONT wrote: | Assuming your engine is still stuck, Rick's comment is well worth considering. I have found, over the years, that engines more often sieze in the valves than in the bores especially if they have been stored reasonably well, as yours seems to have been. Another trick worth trying is to attempt to turn it backwards not forwards. You may need to do this withe something like a screwdriver in the starter ring gear.
Good luck!!
Paul |
Paul, you and I must have a psychic link. Last night I made a start on removing the starter motor for this specific purpose. I realised that the leverage/pressure applied will have a greater effect on the crankshaft at this increased working radius.
I have a small pinch bar which may well be ok for this.
Ian |
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