Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[lowdrag]

I happened to spot that RM Auctions are selling a long nose D-type in their January sale. The accompanying blurb read as follows:-

After being wrung out by Jaguar’s legendary test engineer Norman Dewis, XKD 604’s debuted at the Daily Express Silverstone event in May 1956, where it was driven by Desmond Titterington. At season’s end, the team D-type cars were retired from racing and XKD 604 was acquired by Scottish racing team Ecurie Ecosse, where it remained in storage until the team closed its doors in 1971.

I suggest you now read this great article called "Precious Scrap Metal" by Doug Nye which is the real history. The car was cut up after going back to Jaguar and mysteriously reappeared over 20 years later.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/april-2010/132/doug-nye

[Ray White]

I have always thought, especially when it comes to racing cars, that what has been created once can be broken up and if need be recreated. There is, however, no excuse for "airbrushing" history as you put it. The full story must be told by anyone selling one of these vastly expensive cars; warts and all. The short sightedness is what amazes me because, eventually (after doing the research that should have been done before purchase) the buyer will uncover the ugly truth; that the car in which they have invested so much is no more than a 'bitsa'.

Well done, Lowdrag, for raising this issue.

[Dipster]

There have been many instances of resurrected cars and two cars built from various bits of crash remains or spares claiming the same identity.

But there are winners here. First the auctioneers who make larger profits from their commissions on the sale at what might be considered an unwarranted high price and then the lawyers who are engaged to argue the cases of the sellers and buyers!

[47Jag]

[Ray White]

Isn't this the thing that the DVLA have been complaining about regarding Bugattis?

[lowdrag]

No, there is only one claimant to the chassis number, but the car disappeared in 1956 and strangely "reappeared" 25 years later. It is recorded in the archives as having been cut into pieces following a bad crash on its first outing. I'll find the photo of the twin cars you are talking about and add it.

[lowdrag]

I don't think that the DVLA were quite thinking things through when they published their findings on what constitutes a "real" car, do you? That is a can of worms that they can't find a way of resolving since nearly every car ever built more than 25 years ago would fall foul of one of the requirements. Maybe "Q" plates are going to be the in thing?

Anyway, here is the photo of two cars both claiming the same chassis number being cannibalised and one "real" car being finalised and one replica which was sold on.



In the case of the intention of the post, the first car is indeed 604 which raced ingloriously for one lap before being written off and cut up by Jaguar over the next week, but which suddenly appeared in the 1980s. A complete fake as they say.

[MVPeters]

The history of all the C D & SS Jaguars is here:

http://www.jaguarreplicas.com/ click on the History tab.

Obviously I can't vouch for the accuracy, but it makes for an interesting read!
_________________
Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S'

[Minxy]

Having worked in Motorsport for some years in a previous career I have seen this happen many many times. More recently a Audi Quattro A1 rally car came onto the market in another country, the blurb listed its successes in chronological date order from its inception to date, what it did not tell was four years after it was initially built it was wrapped around a tree and totalled. I knew this because I swapped the parts over to a new shell and have a photo of the crashed shell waiting for disposal. This was back in the eighties almost certainly since then most, if not all, of the mechanicals will have been updated/ replaced so the car today will at best be around 10% original. I also have a photo of the Audi sport workshop where I worked with a selection of ' anonymous' body shells part prepared for the same thing.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a race car that they are paying top dollar for in terms of history is check, check again then double check and if there is even 1% of doubt walk away

[lowdrag]

[Rick]

The more valuable the car, (often) the more murky the history can become

RJ
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[MVPeters]

Lowdrag - pm sent.

Yes, sorry folks, that wasn't the best link!
I had found several sites listing the histories several years ago. They were all broadly similar & did indeed include the D & SS cars. Sadly I don't know now which site I ended up with.
It may have been http://www.classicscars.com/chassis/chassis.html for which free registration is now needed. There are others & as lowdrag pointed out, don't take any of them as 'gospel'!
_________________
Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S'

[lowdrag]

Success it seems. Suddenly any mention of XKD 604 has disappeared from the RM sale catalogue. Perhaps they have bowed to superior force and realised that this is a fake.

[Ray White]

One of my claims to fame is that I knew Duncan Hamilton. He ran a classic car show rooms in Bagshot years ago. I worked directly across the road. Duncan was a real character who could get away with anything. He would pretend to his customers that the replica D Types that he sold handled the same as the Le Mans cars that he raced when, in fact, their rear suspension was different and gave different handling characteristics!.

I think he would have found the whole "fake" business a bit of a hoot.

As it happens, a neighbour of mine has built his own replica D Type. Although I would't be able to tell it from the real thing, he wouldn't try to pass it off as such.

When all's said and done, I think it's a question of one's integrity.

[Rick]