Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[baconsdozen]

A few months back I bought a Range Rover P38. I wanted a reliable,large vehicle with no electronics,low spares cost,easy servicing and repairs.Then I bought a P38.
Originally I thought about a Mk1,but found these were either as rotten as a pear or crazy silly money,the days when you could buy one for £500 being well gone. I wonder if the P38 has all that is necessary to make it collectable. Its comfortable and fast but like most care that go on to become rare it has faults and it needs some care and skill to repair. Its also has well publicised though much exaggerated eccentricities as most classics seem to have,in its case a appetite for fuel and horror stories about the suspension and immobilisers. Does this mean the p38s will become classics? Is it worth buying them now because like so many other not so old vehicles many seem destined to be broken for spares ?.
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Thirty years selling imperial hand tools for old machinery(Now happily retired).

[Rick]

I'm not sure they'll ever be mega bucks, but will become scarce quite quickly I think. I think Ray's got one, on LPG.

RJ
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[D4B]

I think the P38 will become classics sooner than you think
If I was going to buy one it would be the slightly earlier model I think, with less electrickery on it.

[emmerson]

BD, as you may know, I run one of the last Classic RRs, an LSE, which has a lot of the P38 goodies as original, but without most of the ball-breaking electronics.(although it still has enough to cause headaches!)
The major prob with the p38 is not so much its complexity, as the possibly shallow pockets of their second and subsequent owners. As the cars aged, gremlins raised their heads, and can be very expensive to eliminate, so folk tried botching. Sometimes this could work, but usually only as a stop-gap, before even bigger expense showed up, and the car became too expensive to repair.
I'm perhaps fortunate in having two excellent LR repairers to look after my LSE, so can keep it in the manner to which it should be kept, but even so, i am very wary of the P38.
If you are lucky enough to have found a good, unmolested one, then it probably will be an excellent car, and yes, probably a future Classic, but a bad one is just a huge money pit.
Personally, I regard my LSE asa classic car, after all, there are allegedly only about 250 left on the road, but it doesn't seem to regarded as such by some folk, so it may take a wee while for the P38 to reach that august status!

[Dipster]

[quote="emmerson"]

The major prob with the p38 is not so much its complexity, as the possibly shallow pockets of their second and subsequent owners. As the cars aged, gremlins raised their heads, and can be very expensive to eliminate, so folk tried botching.


I regularly used two P38 RRs (petrol V8s) when they were current cars. My employer owned them and they were dealer maintained. And they were awfully unreliable.

I had suspension problems several times (the compressors or sensors failed, taking turns it seems!) and had the fan fly out of the bonnet on both too! If you want one to use then you could ditch the air suspension and fit replacement coils, available as a kit. But then that would take away the "classic" status somewhat.

And there are lots of other electric bits to go wobbly.

Not for me.

[emmerson]

Dipster, removing air suspension from RRs should be a capital offence!
I was persuaded to do this on my first LSE, by an alleged RR repairer who didn't know his left knee from his armpit!
As you say, it somewhat removes the car's possible classic status, but it also completely removes the car's character. As for air suspension being unreliable, I'll have you know that mine hasn't let me down since at least November!
All joking aside, having spoiled my first LSE by doing the coil conversion, I am determined to keep this one on air. Fortunately, a company called ArmsonAE in Syston are eas wizards!
Just as a matter of interest, as the P38 was never fitted with coil springs, insurance companies are not too happy about converting.-, even if you inform them.
The LSE doesn't have this problem, as it only an eight inch longer standard model. I still told my insurers when I did the first one though.

[Ray White]

I think the jury is still out on whether or not the P38 will attain classic status but if the early ones are anything to go by, there is a good chance... but don't hold your breath. I had a lovely original 3.5 and should have held on to it because it was a prototype Vogue. Unfortunately, our Labrador hated it so it had t go! My other half didn't much like it and to be fair it cornered like a boat in a heavy swell and the seats were small and uncomfortable. It also drank petrol like an addict. On the plus side, you knew you had a LAND ROVER and it was easy to maintain.

My P38 4.6 Vogue is a bit special. I would recommend conversion to LPG (although there is a slight risk of burning exhaust valves I am told) as I have found my engine picks up better and ticks over more smoothly. I have used silver electrode sparking plugs but they need special tuning to avoid misfires.

Although not in the same league as an Overfinch, (one of my customers has a brand new one and it is quite fabulous) my car was fitted with unique "Nappa" full leather interior and various other nice features such as colour co ordinated wheels. There is hardly a blemish on the bodywork although it is now 15 years old and has still only done 80,000 miles. The complexity does not bother me. I have found that because these cars have their issues, there is plenty of helpful information on the net and hardly anything that is impossible for the enthusiastic owner with a reasonable knowledge of motor repairs can't do themselves. For example, replacement of the air bags in the EAS is quite straightforward. I rebuilt the compressor with a new piston and cylinder quite easily which restored the system. You can select the ride height by push button and there is a sensor which automatically raises the car by a further 3 inches should it become grounded off road. There are lots of nice touches like the wing mirrors tipping downwards when you select reverse gear!

I also fixed the cruise control which is surprisingly basic. I found that the vacuum hose which is connected to a switch on the brake pedal had become detached.

I have been let down by a silly fault. On one occasion, the battery in the key fob had run down and this prevented the car from starting. This is a poor design in my opinion. Another thing that can cause a major headache is if the 'O' rings on the heater matrix fail. A leak here can mean removal of the entire dash... and that is just for starters! . I once left the sun roof open and overnight rain ruined the centre consul switch panel. Fortunately, a replacement was found on Epay. It was an easy fix.

The only major flaw with the engine is that at high mileages the wet liners can shift. Then again, if the engine has done that many miles, perhaps it is due to be replaced anyway.

[Ellis]

A school friend and a master Land Rover mechanic has only recently sold his "M" registered (1995) P38 Range Rover 2.5 DSE after ten years ownership.
It had done around 170k miles and he spoke very highly of it.
The 6 cylinder BMW turbodiesel engine was completely reliable due to his maintaining it properly and changing the coolant every two years.

He did have the usual suspension air bag and compressor problems and replaced any faulty components with OE replacements and not aftermarket ones.

When he sold it, a manual, he had a number of people who wanted to buy it.

It's only my opinion but I consider the P38 has an understated elegance and has none of the plutocratic overtones which symbolise it's successors.
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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[Ray White]

I have a tip for anyone changing the automatic gearbox fluid (ATF) and filter. On draining the fluid, don't be tempted to hurry this job. Instead, leave it to drain out completely overnight. You will be amazed at the amount that will have drained out!

There is a huge difference in the price of the filters and I have been unable to get Land Rover to give me an answer as to what makes theirs worth so much more than the ones that the rest of the trade use.

[Dipster]

There is, in my opinion, no justification other than profiteering!

I buy Coopers filters at about a third or less of the price of Genuine spares. I truly believe it to be exactly the same product that is branded and priced differently.

And I have found that Genuine spares are not always quality items either.

My small fan motor on the aircon, that I think I have mentioned here before, illustrate that. Genuine part (years ago!) £154 plus VAT. I eventually found what was apparently exactly the same part (it looked identical and bore the same numbers etc.) for £8 in a parts market in Cairo. It was originally destined for a Zastava...... Of course I could be quite wrong. Despite appearances it might be a wholly inferior part. But I think not. It worked perfectly and is still on the car.

[Ashley]

A friend with a 306 Pugeot got 45,000 from his first set of discs and pads, but he took exception to their price for replacements and bought from a local motor factor. These lasted 12,000 miles and cost half as much, so double the price.

This had made me aprehensive about buying pattern parts. How can you be sure of quality.

[D4B]

Many pattern parts suppliers also make for original equipment. However whether they supply the exact same parts in the aftermarket is questionable!

[ukdave2002]

The commercial challenge main dealers have is high overheads, they tend to be in prime bits of town and the vehicle manufacturers specify loads of investments fancy furnishing. Combine this with the ever reducing need to supply parts even in general servicing, they have to have "inflated" prices and will never be able to compete with the parts store who can opperate from much lass affluent location.

When parts are bought fom a main dealer there will be another link in the chain; the vehicle manufacturer who needs to realise a return...it all adds up!

Dave

[Ashley]

Main dealers are very strictly controlled as well as being highly trained by the manufacturers. They have to be amd it means you pay more, but you probably get a better job and a guarantee.

Dealing with independents is a lottery, some are good, but plenty are a liability, but their customers often still promote them whenever they have a chance.

My son is an independent often fixing very very expensive classic cars butchered by incompetents for stratospheric sums of money. Then he has to bite his lip at club gatherings when he hears clueless customers waxing lyrical about "their mechanics".

All I'm saying is that choosing who you take a car to isn't at all easy.

[emmerson]

I recently needed an oil pressure switch for my LSE. Aftermarket, £2.80, "genuine" £28.00. No, that's not a misprint, it was £28.00.
Inside the box they were the same part.