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Ford Popular 103e new to me
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took the pop out today to show my mate the welding that needs doing, 'er indoors came out with her coat and bag and said I'll come with you. I dropped her off shopping and we took a better look at the rust.
Needs a and b post repair panels and sills both sides. A closer inspection has revealed more rust than first thought.
Picked 'er indoors up from shopping and a young couple stopped to talk about the pop and both loved it. Drove home and dropped off the shopping and was leaving to tuck it up in my work garage and ran out of petrol. So had to leave it outside the house until the morning.
Getting to grips with it and finding the brakes are ok. Before I went out I checked the oil, dipstick was as dry as a nuns whatsit. I only had shell helix so topped it up, but will do an oil change before running it again, at least I'll know what's in it from now on.
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a chat on the phone today with a chap who's number I was given regarding the 1172 sidevalve. He told me it was his 53rd birthday and he has been building ford sidevalve said since he was a kid and used to have an aquaplane 100e.
He said to check for a number cast into the block to determine if mine is an 8 or 10hp. He said if it's E93 it's 10HP and if it's another number, I can't for the life of me remember it's an 8HP, well mine is E93A. Other people are telling me the only way to know is remove the head. Also he said the starter motors are different for the 8HP and 10HP, the 10HP is approx 4.5" diameter and the 8HP approx 3". Mine is the larger. He said they are not interchangeable.
Thought anyone?

Just checked small ford spares and indeed 10hp starter is 110mm and 8hp is 90mm. 8hp block is E04C for non commercial vehicles.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20357
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep I think I mentioned about E93 or E93A being visible on the 10hp engine somewhere. Sounds like you have the correct engine anyway, good news.

RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Yep I think I mentioned about E93 or E93A being visible on the 10hp engine somewhere. Sounds like you have the correct engine anyway, good news.

RJ
yes that's right Rick, you did mention it but many other people have said the only way to know was to remove the head. The Internet is a great place for finding stuff but it's not always right.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1139
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but many other people have said the only way to know was to remove the head.


It is the only convenient way to find out...if you could not find any numbers or identification marks...[which, you said, you couldn't?]

Removing the cylinder head on a sidevalve Ford is very easy indeed....as..all it is, essentially, is a lid.

Tools needed are, appropriate socket, screwdriver, and a torque wrench. Oh, and probably a new gasket?

Also allows one to check wear in the cylinder bores, etc....and to identify whether the block has been bored out/re-sleeved over standard? Always a useful bit of information, when looking at spares on offer?

[Also allows one to remove parts of the new cyl. head gasket, around the centre head stud, so the centre stud can exert more pressure.....see Bill Cooper's tuning book for details...helps limit possibilities of the head gasket leaking, when having a thrash? ]


In this respect, the sidevalve Ford is the opposite to overhead valve [or, OHC?} engines....in terms of difficulty removing the head.

The more one has a fiddle with whatever is under the bonnet on a car.....the better it is understood.

And nuts & bolts that are loosened/removed...[and cleaned, etc], then replaced.....make life easier when having to fettle, further down into one's ownership.

After all, you have bought what someone else didn't want...for whatever reason?
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul fairall wrote:
Rick wrote:
Yep I think I mentioned about E93 or E93A being visible on the 10hp engine somewhere. Sounds like you have the correct engine anyway, good news.

RJ
yes that's right Rick, you did mention it but many other people have said the only way to know was to remove the head. The Internet is a great place for finding stuff but it's not always right.


Hello Paul. As per your 103E. I would agree that the starter motor is a clue.

https://www.smallfordspares.co.uk/identification-charts

An extract below refers to identifying the engine, from the stamped engine number.

Engine Number
You will find the number of the existing engine as this is usually stamped into the side of the block on the front left side, on a chamfered ledge, just under the cylinder head. On later 100E units it is on the front right side above the generator mounting bracket on a flat area. Ignore all cast in numbers as these are part numbers, and not necessarily the finished part identity. The digits are very fleet and have a distinct leaning character. The format is always Y followed by numerals for 8hp units, C for 10hp models, 100E for 100E/300E models and 105E for 107E models. If it is preceded by the letter R the unit fitted now is a factory supplied replacement unit.


Forgive me. but I have rather lost the plot in what your intensions are with this vehicle.

I hope the site above enables you to make informed decisions. As per your comment, the internet is alive with Chinese whispers, which, when combined together can lead one's original research to some vague point miles away from the original query.

Regards
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
Quote:
but many other people have said the only way to know was to remove the head.


It is the only convenient way to find out...if you could not find any numbers or identification marks...[which, you said, you couldn't?]

Removing the cylinder head on a sidevalve Ford is very easy indeed....as..all it is, essentially, is a lid.

Tools needed are, appropriate socket, screwdriver, and a torque wrench. Oh, and probably a new gasket?

Also allows one to check wear in the cylinder bores, etc....and to identify whether the block has been bored out/re-sleeved over standard? Always a useful bit of information, when looking at spares on offer?

[Also allows one to remove parts of the new cyl. head gasket, around the centre head stud, so the centre stud can exert more pressure.....see Bill Cooper's tuning book for details...helps limit possibilities of the head gasket leaking, when having a thrash? ]


In this respect, the sidevalve Ford is the opposite to overhead valve [or, OHC?} engines....in terms of difficulty removing the head.

The more one has a fiddle with whatever is under the bonnet on a car.....the better it is understood.

And nuts & bolts that are loosened/removed...[and cleaned, etc], then replaced.....make life easier when having to fettle, further down into one's ownership.

After all, you have bought what someone else didn't want...for whatever reason?
i do hope you are not miffed, I just happened to be talking to someone about an engine and he mentioned the size of the starter and number cast into the block identifying what size it is. I have no problem removing the head and will do when the weather is warmer and I will fit twin su's and aquaplane manifolds. But. It's a little more than a lid. I now have a workshop manual and know the torque setting for the head bolts and tightening sequence. I have located a seller to get Bill Coopers book and will look at your suggestion regarding the head gasket. I appreciate all the help on here and haven't meant to upset anyone.
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:
Paul fairall wrote:
Rick wrote:
Yep I think I mentioned about E93 or E93A being visible on the 10hp engine somewhere. Sounds like you have the correct engine anyway, good news.

RJ
yes that's right Rick, you did mention it but many other people have said the only way to know was to remove the head. The Internet is a great place for finding stuff but it's not always right.


Hello Paul. As per your 103E. I would agree that the starter motor is a clue.

https://www.smallfordspares.co.uk/identification-charts

An extract below refers to identifying the engine, from the stamped engine number.

Engine Number
You will find the number of the existing engine as this is usually stamped into the side of the block on the front left side, on a chamfered ledge, just under the cylinder head. On later 100E units it is on the front right side above the generator mounting bracket on a flat area. Ignore all cast in numbers as these are part numbers, and not necessarily the finished part identity. The digits are very fleet and have a distinct leaning character. The format is always Y followed by numerals for 8hp units, C for 10hp models, 100E for 100E/300E models and 105E for 107E models. If it is preceded by the letter R the unit fitted now is a factory supplied replacement unit.


Forgive me. but I have rather lost the plot in what your intensions are with this vehicle.

I hope the site above enables you to make informed decisions. As per your comment, the internet is alive with Chinese whispers, which, when combined together can lead one's original research to some vague point miles away from the original query.

Regards
Hi Peter, I have become aware of the engine numbers and the Y and C prefixes determining the engine capacity, but mine is a factory replacement that starts RB, there's no C or Y, hence my confusion.
As for my intentions, I must admit I bought the car intending to hotrod it but have, in the short time I have owned it, decided to keep it standard, it may be tuned to go a little better and have panhard rods, upright shocks and softer springs but on the outside it will look as built.
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the experts at Small Ford Spares. Ignore the casting numbers.
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Peter L
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1139
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in the slightest bit miffed......really! Smile
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
I'm not in the slightest bit miffed......really! Smile
thats good, it's difficult to tell someone's mood from reading and I have upset someone unintentionally with the way I've written something
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paul. Seems you have been all around the houses with ideas for your car.

I would think a tender modification would be good.

Returning to the engine, alas no photos ? Are there casting letters and numbers visible ? as I presume that it is actually a Ford engine ?
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Peter L
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:
Hi Paul. Seems you have been all around the houses with ideas for your car.

I would think a tender modification would be good.

Returning to the engine, alas no photos ? Are there casting letters and numbers visible ? as I presume that it is actually a Ford engine ?
haha, very good Peter, E93a cast on the block. 110mm diameter starter motor, so an 1172. What would you consider a tender modification?
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:
According to the experts at Small Ford Spares. Ignore the casting numbers.
missed this post somehow, even so I've been told the starter motors are not interchangeable and small ford spares list 8hp starter 90mm diameter and 10hp starter 110mm diameter.
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul fairall wrote:
peterwpg wrote:
According to the experts at Small Ford Spares. Ignore the casting numbers.
missed this post somehow, even so I've been told the starter motors are not interchangeable and small ford spares list 8hp starter 90mm diameter and 10hp starter 110mm diameter.



as detailed on the Small Ford Spares site.
https://www.smallfordspares.co.uk/plates/18-starter-motor-8-10hp
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