Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ray White]

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1516214#&gid=1&pid=23

Perhaps someone could identify the purpose of these gear wheels on the bulkhead of this rather delectable Napier.

If I could choose a London to Brighton eligible car, this would be high on the list... but if I don't even know how it works????

[Penman]

The 2 meshing brass coloured gears, which seem to be slightly different in tooth numbers, appear to be driven by the cycle chain type cog.
They are under the bonnet but immediately behind that wooden box structure on the inside view. which has 2 dials under it,
The 2 dials look to be MPH and KPH dials.
It would be useful to see if the gear tooth number difference is comparable with a KPH to MPH conversion.
I can't quite make out if there is a chain type cog at the back of the engine, low down, there are what could be highlights from tooh ends on the picture looking sideways at the back of the engine,
_________________
Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10

[Ray White]

Thanks for your input Penman. Let me say what I think. I may well be wrong.

I think the gear wheels are spares along with the plugs. I think the two dials are an after market speedo and rev counter driven by a cable.


The wooden cabinet probably hold the electrical equipment such as trembler coils.

[MVPeters]

Just observations!
The left dial appears to be a rev counter, though a 3,600 red line seems high.
The right dial is marked Trip Odometer - there is a speedo-type cable to the right that goes through the floor by the steering column.
The quadrant gear engages behind the larger gears - to me, this implies adjustment up or down of something, or perhaps oscillating motion. Presumably, the chain is missing - there are also 2 empty bolt holes just below & left of the gear.
An interesting mystery for those of us not familiar with cars of this generation - I'm sure the owner (or the Haynes manual!) could tell us.
_________________
Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S'

[Ray White]

As a matter of interest, this car was formerly owned by Capt. Ivan Forshaw. This notable gentleman died at the age of 95. He was founder of the prestigious car business that specialised in Aston Martin/Lagonda.

In his spare time, Captain Forshaw restored this 1904 Napier from dereliction. Here a photo shows him attending to the car with which he completed the London to Brighton Run no less than 16 times.

[bjacko]

Could it be some kind of advance-retard mechanism. The sector with teeth seem to be connected to some levers on the driver's side. hard to see what they operate. Pity the box isn't open.

[peter scott]

[Rich5ltr]

Firstly I would say that not everything is connected, there's a band around one of the toothed drives which appears to be broken, the chain drive is missing and the plug leads are not connected (there are plugs in the engine on the other side) so the leads must go to the terminals on the bulkhead, perhaps these are individual connections to the magneto? The toothed quadrant to the left (driver'side) looks like it should engage with the first of the brass cogs so I would suggest is the advance / retard moved by the polished lever going through the bulkhead to the steering wheel. At least, that's my assessment. Incidentally, I am going down to Capt Foreshaw's place in a week's time, it's run by his grandson these days.

p.s. The Napier is lovely and I agree it would be great to own, perhaps in a partnership

[Ray White]

Perhaps you might be able to find out a bit more about the Napier.

Out of my league, I'd say.

[peter scott]

I think the plug leads are connected although not to the magneto on the bulkhead but rather to a second magneto at the front of the engine. See:


It looks as if the advance / retard mechanism for the bulkhead magneto has been disconnected and replaced by a Bowden cable connected to the other magneto at the front.

Peter


_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Rich5ltr]

Screenshot 2022-11-01 144543 by Richard Branch, on Flickr

I was looking at the ends of these leads. Or... do you think it's got a more modern mag and that lot on the bulkhead is redundant?

[Ray White]

That is what it looks like. This early, cars had "trembler coils" and that is what I think is in the wooden box. The magneto is connected and I presume would be operational. I expect the original equipment has been left to comply with the LBR rules.

At first I thought how dangerous it would be to have those gears and chain exposed ... but there are four brass dome nuts still in place that I imagine could have held a cover of some kind.

I can't imagine how this particular advance/retard would work being driven from the camshaft by a chain but presumably it's not without a useful function.

Another mystery is at the front of the engine where there is a pair of chain driven sprockets behind the fan. A form of rev counter perhaps?

[Cargy]

Your question is answered by this December 1903 Field magazine extract describing a new four-cylinder 12-h.p. Napier car:

“The arrangement of the dashboard may be seen to have been very carefully thought out. In Fig. 1 the forward view may be seen and it will be noticed that a chain drives off the two-to-one shaft on to a sprocket wheel on the upper part of the dashboard. This sprocket wheel D, the chain of which is kept taut by a spring-controlled jockey roller, drives the commutator, which is located on the opposite side of the dashboard. The second sprocket D1 inside the first drives the lubricator, the chain wheel of which is seen at L 1. The two quadrants C 1 [and] C 3 are for actuating the sparking advance mechanism. C 3 is attached to the sleeve that carries the commutator casing, and C 1 is fastened to the shaft C 2, which is operated from a lever attached to the steering pillar. The back of the dashboard as seen from the driver's seat is shown in Fig. 3. C is the commutator, which in this position is absolutely out of the way of dirt and within immediate observation of the driver.”

These cogs are part of this largely redundant, part-removed system. The second chain wheel described here appears to be missing from one of the two dashboard mounted drive shafts, as well as the main drive chain up from the rear end of the half-speed shaft. The dashboard of the 1904, 15-h.p. car does have a few other Napier improvements/updates visible but the control of the ignition and lubricator system was likely to have remained substantially the same.

1904 was the year when magneto systems had started to significantly replace such older accumulator battery/coil systems in Europe after a magneto-ignition car won the Gordon Bennett but this Napier evidently preceded that with an accumulator, coil and commutator system. It must have been later modified to fit a magneto onto a cross-shaft at the front of the engine driven by a bevel gear on the front of the half-speed shaft, hence the disconnected commutator chain drive cog at the rear end.

Napier remained wary of magnetos, as the 1905 six-cylinder car also had a one coil, one brush and commutator, synchronised ignition system fitted inside a glass-windowed, wooden control box mounted on the inside of the dashboard. A significant difference was that the commutator was now driven by a skew-geared shaft, as the vertical chain drive was less reliable due to lubrication problems. D.G.

[Ray White]

Thank you DG. That explains everything. I bet the missing parts are about somewhere!

Ray.

[Rich5ltr]

The Napier just sold for £320,000