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[split] Old Range Rovers and rusty Discos
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1150
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: [split] Old Range Rovers and rusty Discos Reply with quote

I used my 1993 Range Rover LSE as my daily driver/caravan towcar/European cruiser for over nine years, until the rust got at it last August.
And let's face it, not many cars had a worse reputation than Range Rovers!
I also retained its air suspension until last April, although I must admit that it did have occasional problems, like settling on it's bump stops 160 miles from home.
But basically it was reliable, fast, comfortable and probably the best towcar ever.
Had it not been for the very serious rot, at my age I think I probably would never have replaced it.
As a matter of interest, I kept all the receipts for the car, and it has cost less than 10,000, including purchase price, so at around 20.00 a week, I reckon I had a bargain.
I just hope it's successor, a 1998 Discovery, is half as good!
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 19796
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
...
I just hope it's successor, a 1998 Discovery, is half as good!


Just don't expect better reliability Smile Early Discos tend to suffer with body rot (eg boot floor), whereas Disco IIs (like mine) tend to have OK bodies but the back of the chassis goes. The build quality is - being kind - patchy, which is a shame as otherwise they're handy old tools but very much built down to a price.

Back to the subject anyway, I don't want to derail the thread already Smile

RJ
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2658
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
I used my 1993 Range Rover LSE as my daily driver/caravan towcar/European cruiser for over nine years, until the rust got at it last August.
And let's face it, not many cars had a worse reputation than Range Rovers!
I also retained its air suspension until last April, although I must admit that it did have occasional problems, like settling on it's bump stops 160 miles from home.
But basically it was reliable, fast, comfortable and probably the best towcar ever.
Had it not been for the very serious rot, at my age I think I probably would never have replaced it.
As a matter of interest, I kept all the receipts for the car, and it has cost less than 10,000, including purchase price, so at around 20.00 a week, I reckon I had a bargain.
I just hope it's successor, a 1998 Discovery, is half as good!


I was talking with my local garage owner the other day. He had just given my 2000 Range Rover (4.6 vogue) a M.O.T. and remarked how wheras most of the cars he saw tended to deteriorate underneath mine seemed to be improving with age!

True, I keep the rust that I can see at bay but it's the rust you can't see that get's you in the end. I am considering having the wax oil treatment that the garage are offering.

I have done it myself before when I had the Triumph GT6 but I am not sure I would enjoy the experience now.

Where on the chassis did your Range Rover suffer the most? and how much do you think a Waxoil treatment should cost?
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1150
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
emmerson wrote:
I used my 1993 Range Rover LSE as my daily driver/caravan towcar/European cruiser for over nine years, until the rust got at it last August.
And let's face it, not many cars had a worse reputation than Range Rovers!
I also retained its air suspension until last April, although I must admit that it did have occasional problems, like settling on it's bump stops 160 miles from home.
But basically it was reliable, fast, comfortable and probably the best towcar ever.
Had it not been for the very serious rot, at my age I think I probably would never have replaced it.
As a matter of interest, I kept all the receipts for the car, and it has cost less than 10,000, including purchase price, so at around 20.00 a week, I reckon I had a bargain.
I just hope it's successor, a 1998 Discovery, is half as good!


I was talking with my local garage owner the other day. He had just given my 2000 Range Rover (4.6 vogue) a M.O.T. and remarked how wheras most of the cars he saw tended to deteriorate underneath mine seemed to be improving with age!

True, I keep the rust that I can see at bay but it's the rust you can't see that get's you in the end. I am considering having the wax oil treatment that the garage are offering.

I have done it myself before when I had the Triumph GT6 but I am not sure I would enjoy the experience now.

Where on the chassis did your Range Rover suffer the most? and how much do you think a Waxoil treatment should cost?

Sorry, Rick, do you mind if I reply to Ray? Smile
Strangely Ray, the chassis on mine was totally sound. It was the body which fell to bits!
The car had been waxoyled from new, and I continued doing it every year, but at MOT last December I had an advisory on outer sills.
On inspection back in August, I removed the carpets to have the welding done. This revealed such extensive rust in places which are totally inaccessible for inspection without stripping out, which of course the MOT man cannot do.
From front inner wings, through front bulkhead, windscreen pillars, top and bottom of screen frame, front floor both sides, A pillars both sides, bottom of B pillars, rear floor and wheelarches, C pillars and finally boot floor, it was totally riddled with rot.
Great shame, as it was a lovely car, and had become almost like an old coat which I put on rather than got in!
So sadly it had to go, and as LSE are now out of my price range, and I don't want anything modern, the last series 1 disco will have to do. Sad
Re the Waxoyl cost, to have it done thoroughly I don't think you'd get it done for much less than 1,000.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 985
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that note... Sad I have an old Skoda Rapid, which I used [quite modified] for trialling.

As part of my rot investigations, I had peeled off all the factory-applied rubbery seam sealer from the rear of the off side wheelarch, where it met the floor pan..[the carpets had long since been removed, as in trialling, one is likely to get very wet & muddy]...the 'joint' was in good order...but the MoT man failed the car for the welding....which was as the factory did it, intact, etc.....there were only 3 spot weld for the full quarter circle of the inner wheel arch/floorpan joint!!! Simply because, he could 'see' it. If I had left the seam sealer in place [as I had with the left side] then he would not have commented. I ended up 'seam' welding the joint.....which wasn't easy [and probably why the factory didn't do it?] as the flange where the floorpan butted up to the wheelarch wasn't very sharply made..the tow bits of steel being simply 'clamped' together, with a spot welder going zap zap zap! Thus, the joint wasn't a nice tight fit in the first place. I vowed not to go poking too much in the future.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2658
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Emmerson. That is useful. I can't justify spending 1000 on a 4,000 P38.

I will see how I feel about it when the weather improves and have a "Go" myself. The body panels on my car are fine - even the tailgate - so it would be a shame to allow it to go down hill. (metaphorically speaking!).

The ONLY rust on the car is strangely around the O/S rear door window frame. It is bubbling up under what looks like a rubberised finish.?? I have never taken one of these windows apart so I don't know what is involved.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1150
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
Thanks Emmerson. That is useful. I can't justify spending 1000 on a 4,000 P38.

I will see how I feel about it when the weather improves and have a "Go" myself. The body panels on my car are fine - even the tailgate - so it would be a shame to allow it to go down hill. (metaphorically speaking!).

The ONLY rust on the car is strangely around the O/S rear door window frame. It is bubbling up under what looks like a rubberised finish.?? I have never taken one of these windows apart so I don't know what is involved.


If the P38 is like the LSE then the window frames are plastic coated and damp gets in under the plastic and quietly rots away. Mine was the same. It was little bits like that, all added to the huge amount of work to weld it that decided the car's demise.
Waxoyling is not a difficult job, just dirty and 'orrible! Get it up on four ramps (I'm very fortunate there; I have a friendly LR repairer who lets me use his lift)., put on some very old kit, sit the tin in hot water, and spray! It is much easier if you have a small compressor and spray gun,(Aldi is cheapest) but it can be done with a garden sprayer, provided you have the stuff warm enough to flow freely. I put the tin in an old Burco boiler to heat, even in summer. I must say that horrible as is, its a very satisfying job, but as mine has proved, there are an awful of rot spots that you simply cannot get at without dismantling, and that is where the trouble starts. My car looked superb, but...................!
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2658
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't seem to find any info on dismantling the window frame and no new replacement parts. The workshop manual is a nightmare and generally not helpful.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1150
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
I can't seem to find any info on dismantling the window frame and no new replacement parts. The workshop manual is a nightmare and generally not helpful.


Can't help there Ray, sorry, I've never had any thing to do with P38s, but the Classic was simple to do,as long as you remembered to lift the glass with the frame, after disconnecting the lift mechanism.As I remember there was one bolt at the top in the leading edge of the door, the same on the trailing edge, and two inside at the bottom,after removing the door card. I'm going to the local LR mender tomorrow: I'll have a look.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1150
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Ray, didn't make it today. Watch this space.
Isn't it nice to have our very own thread? Very Happy
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
Sorry, Ray, didn't make it today. Watch this space.
Isn't it nice to have our very own thread? Very Happy


Yes indeed. I do have the odd pang of guilt though! Embarassed

I think the rubberised covering should slide off the metal but I can't imagine it would be much good and anyway I read there is a risk of breaking the little tags that hold it in place so replacements would need to be available. I read the problem was electrolytic reaction rather than rust.

I should imagine the chances of finding replacement rubber strips would be pretty low but it might be worth a call to the Land Rover dealership.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Ray, had a few problems. Next week hopefully, I'll get to see him.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2658
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
Sorry Ray, had a few problems. Next week hopefully, I'll get to see him.


Too wet to do much at the moment.!
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1150
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray, I've had a look at a P38 and the doors are totally different to the Classic, so my info was totally useless!
The P38 does not have detachable window frames; the doors are one-piece, except for the weatherstrip along the edge of the door/bottom of the window, which is clipped into place, and should lift off. If the rust is under there, then it is the door itself, as far as I can see. It shouldn't be too difficult to repair though. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but if you post a photo I'm going back there next week and can compare doors. What did frighten me is the amount of wires, relays and black boxes inside the door!
The one I looked at has been AA'd to the garage as he had problems opening the door, and when it did open the car wouldn't start. My pal was waiting for the electronics expert to look at it. I think if it were mine I'd run away!
I wonder just how many P38s have been scrapped because of faulty electrics?
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