Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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UKdave2002 Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: Triumph Stag |
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Sorry for the length of this initial thread, but I have 10 months to catch up!
Thought I’d start a tread on my Triumph Stag. I’ve fancied a Stag since I was a kid and heard one making that low revving V8 burbling sound, just like the cars in America do.
I bought in September last year with a known overheating fault!!. For those of you who don’t know this is the Stags achilles heel. The car was in the final stage of its development just as Triumph was being reeled into the Leyland group and the bottom line was that the engine / cooling system were never really tested and developed properly.
The cars have 2 engineering faults;
1. The water bores in the engine are only just big enough, so with any kind of silting or poor castings; you have cooling problems.
2. The radiator can only just get enough air through it at low speed to cool the car.
Any prolonged over heating warps the alloy heads and then you into serious engine rebuilds.
As a consequence of all this Stag engines were failing in their year in the hotter areas of the US (the main target market) which killed sales, and BL never really corrected the engineering flaws (lack of resource or money? who knows).
Over the years Stag specialists have tried all sorts of differing coolants, radiators, water pumps and fans, and now folk are running reliable cars in hotter climates like Texas and Australia.
Back to my Stag, its about as unoriginal as you can get, started life in 1976 as an green automatic and is now a white manual, at some point had a Ford V6 (hence the bulge in the bonnet) and now back with a Triumph V8. I picked the car up from Leeds in September 06, tailored it back home. It had had a photographed complete body restoration in 1999; the chrome was like new, 10 months MOT so I paid a price that reflected the overheating fault.
Once I got the car home I set about the heating fault, as it turned out it didn’t actually boil over, but the temperature gauge got very close to the red. I felt the radiator which was stinking hot at the top and only tepid at the bottom, a cooling flush was in order. I bought some bars cooling flush, the kind that’s a powder, you run the engine for 20 min’s and leave in for a couple of days, then drained and pressure flushed the system out. This sorted the overheating out; the car now runs with the temperature gauge at normal.
The unknown element is that it is lightly that there will have been some slight warping of the heads if it was run hot for any length of time, without taking the head off I won’t know, as it is running fine, I’m following the old adage “ if it aint broke don’t fix it”.
The tyres were a bit of a mix , and a couple were low so last Dec I took it down to D&D who re-shod it with 4 new firestone’s .
As it gets used to take the kids out I have fitted 3 point rear seat belts, the Stag had factory mountings for rear belt, and even has the cut outs in the rear trim side panels.
I changed the front 2 belts at the same time as they were well past their best. It has its MOT last week and passed , I had had to weld a small patch to the rear of the floor prior to the test, but this was all.
With all the rain we have had I have re water proofed the hood, water just bounces off it now.
Next job its to fit electronic ignition, I’ll post more on this later.
Dave |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Hi UK, They've just started showing a Tv programme here, in which one of the characters drives a Stag. It reminded me just how nice looking the car is.
One question though. What is your opinion as to the ones that have cured the overheating problem by fitting a Rover V8?
A former workmate of mine here owns a Stag, but has never experienced any overheating problems with our climate....
UJ |
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UKdave2002 Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hi UJ
I think for anyone who wants to do a higher mileage in the a Stag the Rover V8 is a sensible choice for a few of reasons;
1) Obviously reliability!
2) The choice of Rover based V8 unit’s right up to the modern EFI stuff.
3) The cost maintenance (in the UK anyway), there are some many around that spares are a fraction of the cost of the Triumph V8. A pair of new Stag heads went on eBay for £3200! That’s more than I paid for my car.
But apparently they don’t sound as good!
Consistently given your location, Sweden had a small influence on the design of the Stag;
The car has 2 completely independent exhausts, one for each bank, the original plan was to have 1 exhaust pipe exiting each side at the rear of the car, however at the time, the Swedish government were considering legislation which would mean all new cars had to have exhausts that exited on the LHS, the theory being that there would be less pollution for pedestrians. So Triumph had to put a couple of bends in the left hand pipe to get over to the right hand side of the car!
Don’t know if they ever did apply the legislation, but the Stag pipes never changed.
The TV program could be “new tricks” in which Dennis Waterman drives a Stag.
Dave |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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It is Denis Waterman that drives the Stag, so you are correct. Its called sometbing else here though....
Interesting comments you made about the Rover alternative.
The exhaust legislation was introduced, but with exceptions.....typical for this country! Caused a bit of a fuss here if I remember correctly....
UJ |
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pigtin Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Back in the early 80s I helped my brother fit a 2.5 straight six Triumph engine into his, it didn't sound quite like a V8 but it went well and was very reliable.
Don. |
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UKdave2002 Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Don
the 2.5 straight six, ford V6 & Rover V8 , were the common replacements in the UK, I can imagine the straight 6 would sit well given the Stag was based on the Triumph 2000 platform.
I allways think the standard Triumph V8 looks as if it’s been coaxed in to the Stags engine bay, has some really small clearances, especially round the exhaust manifolds and you have to remove the power steering pump to replace the battery!!
Still its fun
Dave |
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buzzy bee Guest
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Whilst out on my bike ride this eveing I saw a nice motorbike, I have no idea on bikes (the ones with two wheels and engines anyway!), but it was black and had lots of chrome, with old style plates on, it also sounded old if you get what I mean, not all tinny! Maybe that is just me!
I aslo got past by a stag, sounded really good, top down with the sun begining to go down, throwing a nice orangey yellow light on it. The stag was yellow, well dark yellow gold colour, with a man obviously enjoying himself behind the wheel!
I also fell in a few large puddles giving me very wet trainers, and socks but that is another story!
Cheers
Dave |
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UKdave2002 Guest
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Alternator has packed up on the Stag, it suddenly started to charge erratically, then not at all, so I suspect it’s the brushes or slip ring with theses symptoms.
I was thinking of upgrading the alternator anyway as I am going to fit an electric fan, the standard alternator’s output would be a tad low when you are idling if you are powering the fan, and idling of course is when you are lightly to need the fan.
I’ll fix the old alternator up and submit a post on the repair, it’s a Lucas ACR, so bits are cheap and easy to get hold of, and keep it as a spare.
Dave |
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UKdave2002 Guest
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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The other day I measured the dwell on the Stag, it was 43 degrees should be 28-34, I have been meaning to give the ignition an overall, including fitting a breaker less electronic ignition kit for a while.
Spuring me on is the that the Stag has developed a misfire , thought I sort that out before fitting the electronic ignition so I could get a real idea of what improvement it made.
So today changed the consumable bits of the ignition, plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm. I have not bothered with new points or condenser as this will be redundant when I fit the new ignition. I had to take the dizzy out to get the Lucas number off it so that I could order the correct Petronix electronic ignition kit (thanks UJ & Stuchamp for pointing me in the Petronix direction).
So whilst the dizzy was off I reset the points ( 2 sets on a Stag), well I knew the dwell angle was to big, but to the naked eye you would not think the points ever opened, I was amazed when I saw it that the car ran as well as it did, contact bounce now a high contender for the misfire!.
All was well until I went to reset the ignition timing, after static timing all I got was a few miss and backfires, I’d got the ignition timing from the manual, checked again (should have read the whole bit first time ) Stag engines are timed on number 2 cylinder, I set timing to Number 1 !.
After that the car ran like a dream , took it out for a test run and passed Buzzy coming the other way (By the Co-Op Buzzy if you didn’t see me!). Have orderd the Petronix kit today, if it arrives will fit next week-end.
Dave |
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buzzy bee Guest
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
I saw a blue beetle with a nice roof rack on it, and then I saw a white stag, thinking I know that, then saw you, but by the time I waved I was level or past you. I was just going to buy some paint.
Glad it was you, as I normally end up waving to a stranger!
Cheers
Dave |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4105 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Dropped the Stag off for an MOT on Friday, left it with the garage as busy at work , got a call to say it had failed on the following;
One of the front brake pipes was fitted in slightly twisted manor which could cause a problem at full lock.
Emmisions were a bit high
Split in a wiper blade
I wasn't surprised it failed as apart from driving it I have not touched it for a year
Anyway thay asked me if I wanted to do the work myself or if I wanted them to, as really busy I asked them to and agreed to collect the following day.
Went to pick it and was told, "supplier sent wrong blade and can't get us the right one until Monday, so we have just super glued the split, to get it through the test, brake hose refit / bleed and adjusting the carbs to meet the emmisions only took 15 min's, so I can't really charge you for that!"
So I just paid the basic test fee and had some faith restored in modern garages
Dave |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22447 Location: UK
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Greeney in France
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 1173 Location: Limousin area of France
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have a friend with a Stag and a couple of early Jags with the same problems with cooling, they have all but solved them using electric operated water pumps instead of the original belt operated _________________ www.OldFrenchCars.com
We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us |
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buzzy bee
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
The wiper arm on my mini lost it's splines, so it wouldn't wipe, so the MOT man superglued it on, problem now is I can't get it off to replace it!
Was it your Stag I saw yesterday morning at the Garage oposite the builders merchants?
Cheers
Dave |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4105 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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buzzy bee wrote: | Hi
The wiper arm on my mini lost it's splines, so it wouldn't wipe, so the MOT man superglued it on, problem now is I can't get it off to replace it!
Was it your Stag I saw yesterday morning at the Garage oposite the builders merchants?
Cheers
Dave |
Hi Dave , yep that was mine
Greeney in France wrote: | I have a friend with a Stag and a couple of early Jags with the same problems with cooling, they have all but solved them using electric operated water pumps instead of the original belt operated |
Hi Greeney, the electric water pump conversion is a popular stag mod in hotter climates, the standard setup is ok, as long as well maintained , you do tend to drive though with 1 eye on the temp gauge |
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