Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Old-Nail]

With such an abundance of new paint colours to choose from I wondered which is the best way to approach getting just the colour I want to respray my car.

For example one manufacturers 'Primrose yellow' is another manufacturers 'Beryl green' which means I may know the colour I like but how do I convey that colour to the paint supplier?
I am tempted to pick the nearest match from the RAL chart but that might not give me the exact match to the finish I would like, as I've never bought paint before what suggestions do you have?

Also who is a trusted supplier of good quality paint to the public in the UK?

[Uncle Joe]

Well, the easy way is just to look at cars that you see, and when you see a colour you like, remember what its on, then get a touch up can from the car store. You then get the code, and name, which you take to your supplier. This doesnt always work though. I've been trying to get the colour and code of the paint I want to use on my Lincoln for a long time now. No touchups are available, and the importer wont give me the formula, name or anything.

Another way, if you have a sample, is to get it optically measured. You can then get the exact colour mixed.

It would probably be better to look for the brand of paint, rather than a supplier. Here, a lot depends on personal choice. Nowadays, I usually use one of two brands, depending on the job.

The one tip that I would give though, is try to look for a colour that is on a common car. Its way easier to get colour for a Ford Focus than my beloved Phobof Phryte....

[Old-Nail]

I tried the first but Mrs. Nail complained that I was spending too much time looking at other car colours over my shoulder than I was the road!

I saw an 07 Honda with exactly the colour I would like but when I looked in Halfords for a paint match it wasn't there.

Could you take a look at this paint UJ and let me know your gut feeling, is it
likely to be any good or should I be looking elsewhere?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170198064121&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007

[Uncle Joe]

Personally, I would not use a cellulose paint today. Its really a thing of the past. I would use either 2K or Water Based. The big disadvantage with 2K is the safety equipment needed.

However, having said that, back in the day, when cellulose was the thing to use, I had a lot of good results with it. Included in those were several times when I annoyed the neighbours by spraying cars outside....

Was the Honda a car, or a bike? Incidentally, as its your first time spraying, try to avoid a metallic....

[Old-Nail]

The Honda was a modern car but I couldn't say what model as they all look the same to me.

I chose cellulose deliberately because although superseded by more modern stuff it's DIY friendly as opposed to 2-pack.
Remember this is a first time re-spray, in solid colour, done in a domestic 10ft x 15ft garage! The only safety equipment I have is an open door for ventilation and a cheap mask!

I'm trying to do one panel at a time because of the space limitation, and would like something that covers well and can be polished out afterwards to remove any mistakes with the gun.

[Uncle Joe]

Given your situation, I would do one of two things. As a first choice, go with the celly. As a second, go with Water Based, then get it cleared by a pro.

Out of curiousity, what kind of gun are you using?

[Old-Nail]

I don't know the make of the gun UJ, but it's a suction type. I bought it as a package complete with small compressor and shutz gun, it may not be up to much, but it has to be better than a spray can or brush finish which were my other alternatives.

I don't want to pay for any professional paintwork as that would A: cost too much and B: take away from the satisfaction of trying myself.

The bits of welding and perhaps some electrical work are all I want to farm out.

[Uncle Joe]

The only reason that I suggested getting it cleared by a pro is because the accepted thing has been to use a 2K clear on water based...though its not strictly needed anymore, as WB clears are becoming available.

I'm enjoying the discussion, by the way....

[Old-Nail]

Thank you.

I know nothing of water based paints other than they dry dull and need to be clear coated, are they user friendly or is it just that the base coat is and the top isn't?
In the days of cellulose every diy owner could give his car a quick blow over to tidy it up a little, without a thought to H & Safety.

I have perhaps one of the most cavalier attitudes when it comes to my own health and safety but even I have a healthy respect for cyanide...so 2k paints in a surgical mask is out!

I love learning stuff, which is why I'd like to try the respray myself, and if I make a mess of it then I will have learned a bit more than I knew to begin with.

[Uncle Joe]

Well, a lot of todays cars are painted using WB's. I've only had a little experience of them myself, but they do seem to be user friendly. It seems that their drying time allows them to flow more easily, and therefore the surface tends to be smoother. They are also user friendly in the sense that they dont smell much, so you wont annoy your neighbours as much.

I have been having a lot of thoughts about them myself, and FOR ME, I can see one big advantage. Nowadays, I always strip my cars down to the bare metal. This does give them a tendency to flash rust. I figure that with WB's, I can strip one panel, spray it, then move on to the next. This means that there is less tendency for the flash rust, but also, when I transport it to wherever I put on the clear, even if it rains, it wont rust either. Primer remember, is porous...

Going back to celly, thats how I learned to spray, giving cars a quick blow over....

[Old-Nail]

I've bought a couple of 'How to' books off ebay regarding paint spraying but of course they are second hand and relate more to cellulose.

Water based sounds interesting but I don't understand a couple of precepts.
Firstly, as we know water does not sit over oil, does this mean that prep work has to take the car right down to metal in order to avoid covering existing paints/primers?

Secondly, can you rub down water based layers between coats to remove imperfections before the final layer as you do with celly? The reason I ask is that no doubt I will make mistakes, runs, orange peel etc and I'd like to think that by wet flatting, repainting, and polishing I might have a chance of achieving a half decent finish. (God loves a trier.)

And finally, to a novice the number of finishes is baffling. Cellulose, Acrylic, synthetic Enamel, Acrylic Enamel, water based paint, one pack, two pack, buckle my shoe pack...isn't there anyone out there that can put this stuff into laymans terms?

Someone on another forum said " Any idiot can paint, but not paint well"
"Well thanks a lot for that gem of wisdom you plonker!" I thought....is it a black art? Is there a magicians circle I should join somewhere? Or will somebody explain it all and put me out of my agitated state!

[Dirty Habit]

O-N, I know what you mean about cellulose being so forgiving, even runs can be flatted back and cut to a shine. I get confused by all the different paints but if you go to the Jawel ebay shop they colour code what thinners goes with which paint ect. That may help. The car below was painted panel by panel in cellulose in an old frame tent

[Old-Nail]

Well that's encouraging DH thanks, it turned out well didn't it?

[Dirty Habit]

It did turn out nice considering it was the worst rust bucket you can imagine. But it did have 600,000 + miles of pot hole pounding NY miles on it. I made a video of the whole project, from collecting it in the Bronx and again in Liverpool and all through the months of welding ect. I look back now and think I must have been mad. I know I will never do anything like that again.

[Uncle Joe]

I've got a feeling that some people arent going to agree with some of these comments, but, even so...

If you want to do a succesful paint job, irrespective of the type of paint that is used, as many of the mines as possible must be removed. So therefore, I would always recommend getting a paint from a reputable manufacturer that can supply a Tech. Sheet. On this sheet is loads of useful information. Tip size, gun pressure, even overlap percentage on some. So there is a good start...

Then, I would always say, remove the paint down to bare metal. Yes, its tedious, but at least you know exactly what is underneath the new paint. I've been asked hundreds of times ''can I put this paint over that paint? Thats a question that cant really be answered. Nobody knows if there is anything on or in the paint of a classic car that shouldnt be there. Can you say, for example that the paint is original and never been touched up or repaired in some way? Can you say for certain that there are no contaminents, eg silicone? Can you say for certain that there is no rust under the paint? If you can answer these and other questions yes, and be 100% certain that you are correct, by all means, paint over existing paint. But if you cant, remove it.

Removing it gives other advantages also. Its possible to use a wipe on galvaniser for example. Or self-etch primer, which will kill microscopic rust. Or in other words, you can use the paint of your choice. But please, from the same manufacturer. I've seen 2K from two different manufacturers that arent compatible.

Moving on to water based before my fingers get tired. WBP's are possibly more forgiving than even Celly. Its often recommended that light ''dust'' coats are used. Wheras this would/can give problems with other paints, it doesnt with these. And the can be sanded and polished in the normal way. Biggest trouble is that they are a bit more expensive than some...