|
Author |
Message |
wrinx
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Derbyshire
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Hot running? |
|
|
Not sure if I have a problem or not....but would appreciate some comments anyway
I replaced the head gasket on my car a couple of years ago and then the bottom end went (contaminated oil from the HG failure!) so I had the crank reground and put new shells in.
All went well until the HG failed again some 2,000 miles later (overtightened I think!). So, I had the head skimmed again (only 0.07 from memory) just top be sure. Block face looks good, I checked with a ruler and feeler, everything within tolerance.
I'm sure the whole engine is much hotter to the touch than before I started working on it...but the coolant temperature is perfect (recently had the capillary gauge repaired and recalibrated). Currently running on Halfords 20/50 Classic green stuff but only put water in the radiator this time, until I'm sure of the integrity of the head gasket. Still hot though...
Initially my only thought was a blocked waterway but when the head was off this time I checked...no problem. Also had the head pressure tested, again no problem.
So, my only other thought is that the timing might be out, causing excessive temperature in the head. But surely the coolant would deal with this, so perhaps it's my imagination?
I've not been able to check the timing properly as the timing marks are in the wrong place!!! However, I have set it to TDC when number one spark plug fires and it initially ran ok but is beginning to get harder to start...not another head gasket I hope!!!
Sorry for going on.....but any thoughts?
wrinx _________________ www.alfaromeo155.co.uk | www.alfamatta.co.uk
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7126 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Assuming you are not running with retarded ignition and you believe the cooling system is operating correctly then there is another way to increase you cooling efficiency. Use a wetting agent:
http://www.evanscooling.com/main25.htm
Not cheap so you don't want to have any leaks.
Peter |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Greeney in France
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 1173 Location: Limousin area of France
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Incorrect timing will effect heat in the head as the "explosion" wont happen correctly and heat wont dissipate.
"Antifreeze" does help lower temperatures too so running with just water will give a couple of degrees more.
Not forgetting of course "antifreeze" is not the correct term, it is also a corrosion inhibitor controlling the corrosive elements between alloys and steel
Water wetter do work well too _________________ www.OldFrenchCars.com
We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us |
|
Back to top |
|
|
47p2
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Modern fuels also burn much hotter than the fuel they replaced, thus generating a lot more heat in the engine bay _________________ ROVER
One of Britain's Fine Cars |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Phil - Nottingham
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 1252 Location: Nottingham
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Retarded ignition will cause overheating - not many cars like running at TDC esepcially tuned ones
What MODEL is it? Make sure CB gap is not too narrow as this retards ignition and makes starting difficult. Use a dwell meter before timing it
Try advancing it a little. make up a cardboard scale and pointer on the front pulley. Check centrifugal and vac advance and/or retatrd is operating and not sticking
Localised overheating due silting up of the block may be a problem as will binding brakes.
Be careful as you may distort head and block permanently or hole a piston _________________ Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wrinx
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Derbyshire
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks chaps, sounds like I have a problem with the timing then I need to work out a way of marking the flywheel
Afraid I'm more at home with modern engines and still learning the ropes with classic stuff
I set the engine at TDC as everything I'd read mentioned the spark should occur at the point of maximum compression.
@ Greeney...I always use antifreeze but have temporarily left it out as I'm told it doesn't mix with oil. So I'm being cautious with the new head gasket, when I know it's secure I'll change the coolant Purchasing the replacement bottom end shells was not a cheap experience!
Will have to dig out the Gunsons meter and read the handbook properly
wrinx _________________ www.alfaromeo155.co.uk | www.alfamatta.co.uk
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
wrinx
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Derbyshire
|
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Phil - Nottingham wrote: | What MODEL is it? Make sure CB gap is not too narrow as this retards ignition and makes starting difficult. Use a dwell meter before timing it |
CB gap is/was spot on last time I checked but will check it again and investigate the Dwell setting The car is the Tonkatoy in my signature, which has a detuned (65bhp) 1900 Alfa Twincam engine.
Phil - Nottingham wrote: | Try advancing it a little. make up a cardboard scale and pointer on the front pulley. Check centrifugal and vac advance and/or retatrd is operating and not sticking |
Thanks, will do...2-3 degrees before TDC to start with?
wrinx _________________ www.alfaromeo155.co.uk | www.alfamatta.co.uk
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scotty
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 883
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would agree with all the previous good advice, but if I may ask a question please - did the rebuild involve removing the distributor or an associated part that would require the timing to be reset?
If it didn't and everything is exactly where it was prior to the rebuild then I'm wondering how the timing could have been altered sufficiently to have changed the running characteristics of the engine.
Have you checked for an air lock and / or free flow around the system? Sometimes gunge gets loosened during a major mechanical intervention and "falls" to the lowest sections of the circulation circuit and restricts the flow.
Good luck, personally I hate these situations when it happens to me as I always end up pulling my hair out trying to get things back to the status-quo. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Greeney in France
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 1173 Location: Limousin area of France
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ah also the distributor could have been replaced 180° out if it was removed _________________ www.OldFrenchCars.com
We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7126 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Greeney in France wrote: | Ah also the distributor could have been replaced 180° out if it was removed |
Meaning the engine wouldn't generate any heat at all. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dclf1947
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 107 Location: Laoag City, Philippines
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
When I was in the UK I had cooling problems on 3 of my cars over a period of time. In all cases it ended up being the radiator matrix needing replacement. Even though with the radiator out out of the car if you poured water in the top of the radiator a steady flow came out the bottom connection. The problem was that many of the radiator pipes were blocked reducing the efficiency. The local radiator repair guy showed me the one from my MK1 Transit camper, I was amazed how many were blocked and yet it only overheated when I towed.
Dave
Philippines |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wrinx
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Derbyshire
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Scotty wrote: | I would agree with all the previous good advice, but if I may ask a question please - did the rebuild involve removing the distributor or an associated part that would require the timing to be reset? |
Greeney in France wrote: | Ah also the distributor could have been replaced 180° out if it was removed |
Yes, the distributor was removed, as were the cams and valves etc for the head to be skimmed.
Funnily enough, I did manage to put the distributor in upside down to begin with
I'm liking the timing being out, it's what I suspected initially and now the TDC issue has been explained I see why....thanks guys
Gives me something to do on a wet weekend...
wrinx _________________ www.alfaromeo155.co.uk | www.alfamatta.co.uk
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
wrinx
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Derbyshire
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
dclf1947 wrote: | When I was in the UK I had cooling problems on 3 of my cars over a period of time. In all cases it ended up being the radiator matrix needing replacement. Even though with the radiator out out of the car if you poured water in the top of the radiator a steady flow came out the bottom connection. The problem was that many of the radiator pipes were blocked reducing the efficiency. The local radiator repair guy showed me the one from my MK1 Transit camper, I was amazed how many were blocked and yet it only overheated when I towed.
Dave
Philippines |
That's strange Usually there's some overheating with a rad in that condition.
Water temp is rock solid but the radiator is permanently cooled by the fan being driven from the crank....but I'll bear your experience in mind if it still runs hot after setting the timing properly.
wrinx _________________ www.alfaromeo155.co.uk | www.alfamatta.co.uk
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dclf1947
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 107 Location: Laoag City, Philippines
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Reading though the topic again if the temperature gauge probe is fitted to the head or block and the gauge that has been recently calibrated is not showing excessive temperature you have not got a problem? Normal running temperature is too hot to touch by hand.
If the probe is fitted on the radiator and you consider you still have a problem it could possibly be the thermostat, try running without it.
Just my thoughts.
Dave
Philippines |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wrinx
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Derbyshire
|
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The probe is fitted to the inlet manifold so not directly in the head, hence why I was worried it might not truly reflect the head temperature.
I've just been playing with the timing and my strobe light (vacuum pipe off), think I've got it set about right!
The idle speed increased slightly when I advanced the ignition, which I took to be a good thing
Noticed the plugs were rather black but it would have been over-fuelling
It does seem to "sound" better and I'm off for a little run to see how it performs....although "performs" is a bit of a relative termn when used to describe the Tonkatoy
wrinx _________________ www.alfaromeo155.co.uk | www.alfamatta.co.uk
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|