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greenbeam
Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Posts: 85 Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:52 am Post subject: Motor/Engine mounts for a prewar Armstrong Siddeley - DIY? |
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Hi all,
What do people do for renewing old/unusual engine mounts? Are there suppliers that will rebuild them, or does the availability of liquid urethane compounds of varying flexibility now make this a DIY proposition?
I imagine the mounts would originally have been quite soft/flexible to damp the long-stroke engine, and the softest urethane I have found so far has a hardness rating of '60A' (Devcon Flexane 60L) which is claimed to be similar to stock modern engine mounts. I am not sure if this is soft enough though.
In case it matters, this is for a 1935 Armstrong Siddeley and I'm in Australia.
Cheers,
Paul. _________________ 1963 Sunbeam Alpine Series 3
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Sports Saloon
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Coachbuilt Saloon |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7119 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Paul,
I don't have an answer for you but thought I'd express empathy. I replaced the gearbox mount on my old car and the replacement was far too hard and introduced vibration that had not be present before. The mount in question is just a simple sandwich held horizontally and one of the plates had detatched from the rubber. In the end I just re-installed the old mount and ignored the fact that it had no lateral support.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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D4B
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 2083 Location: Hampshire UK
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Paul, I too wish to express empathy! But sadly no solution really...
My 1961 Peugeot van badly needed new mounts, as when pulling away the
rubbers were parting company with the metal, causing the fan to scrape the radiator!
I found a new pair in France, but after waiting almost a month for them to arrive, found they were too tall and caused the fan to scrape the radiator
all the time!!
So in the end, and in desperation, I modified a pair of Mini engine mounts by
welding half of my Peugeot mounts to them:
Good luck with it |
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PAUL BEAUMONT
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Barnsley S. Yorks
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:34 am Post subject: |
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A picture of the offending part would be useful. Someone may recognise an adaptable replacement. I get engine mounts made in the UK for the
Jowett Car Club. Tooling is the chief draw back. Small volumes of parts are not awfully expensive. |
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greenbeam
Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Posts: 85 Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Here are some photos of 'the offending part' as Paul B called it .
Quite a complex piece. External casting, a sleeve through the rubber, with top and bottom washers onto the rubber, and then a threaded ring tightened down onto the perimeter of the rubber. There are four mounts like this in total.
Hopefully that helps with ideas for refurbishment, or an alternate source.
Regards,
Paul.
[img]
[/img]
[/img] _________________ 1963 Sunbeam Alpine Series 3
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Sports Saloon
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Coachbuilt Saloon |
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Da Tow'd
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 349 Location: Bella Coma British Columbia Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:08 am Post subject: |
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we made some small diesel engine mounts for a marine gen set using 3M windshield Polyurethane
correct size bolts with large washers in a paper drinking cup.
bolts facing out on both ends of the paper cup duct tape for the open end fill with the "goop" and let it cure
you might be able to reuse the "bolt" parts from the old mounts
they are still good after 3 years
just an idea
lots of YouTube's for inspiration
good luck
Hank |
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greenbeam
Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Posts: 85 Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that Hank, good to know someone has tried the DIY path and been successful. I've seen the 'paper cup' trick on You Tube, but with the Devcon Flexane product. My concern there is how stiff the mount would be compared with the original. The motor in this car is very heavy - long stroke 6-cylinder, so not sure windscreen goo would be up to the task.
Given the lack of replies re professional rebuilders of the mounts, it looks like I'll have to try DIY. I'll post photos.
Regards,
Paul. _________________ 1963 Sunbeam Alpine Series 3
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Sports Saloon
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Coachbuilt Saloon |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4105 Location: South Cheshire
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PAUL BEAUMONT
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Barnsley S. Yorks
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Looks like a fairly standard Silentbloc type bush with a thick boss up the middle. I am guessing that the bush itself comes out of the casting - maybe with some brute force! Quite a few folks here make such bushes but as you are in Aus have you talked to Motherson Elastomer Pty Ltd 48-86, Powell Street Unit 4, 18-22, Bendigo, Victoria, 3550, Australia PH: +61 3 5440 2069
Paul |
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greenbeam
Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Posts: 85 Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:09 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Dave, Paul B for the pointers. Often it is the right terminology that helps suppliers understand what is needed, so the reference to 'Silent Block' is much appreciated Paul.
I've tried a few suppliers here, but given the Christmas/New Year period and our main summer holiday, many suppliers are closed for a couple of weeks. I'll follow up with your tips though gents.
Cheers,
Paul H. _________________ 1963 Sunbeam Alpine Series 3
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Sports Saloon
1935 Armstrong Siddeley 17HP Coachbuilt Saloon |
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Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Another term is anti-vibration mounts.
Here is a UK company whose website mentions that they are willing to help.
What that "help" actually is, may be answered if you contact them.
http://www.antivibrationmethods.com/category/military-av-mounts
I would be very surprised if there are not a number of companies making the same type of mountings. I would guess they will ask for the weight of whatever is being supported. |
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1935Hillman
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I've had a small number of specially made rubber blocks made by this excellent and very helpful company
http://www.rhnuttall.co.uk/
They are quite a big firm but not too big to make the engine mounts for my 1933 Aero Minx which were very successful. I'm not sure that they will cast steel tubes into rubber but you may be able to make up the units by pressing the metal parts into the rubber like I did.
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1935Hillman
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 257 Location: Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot to say that I have a Talbot straight six engine with very similar mounts to yours that I am saving for a special at some future date. I have no idea how I am going to deal with them so will be very interested to see how you get on for when it is my turn |
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