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Are replicas classic cars?
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7074
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:55 pm    Post subject: Are replicas classic cars? Reply with quote

I know there are many poor copies of famous classic cars out there but there are a few where the builder has painstakingly re created a replica which looks on the surface to be as near as it is possible to get to the "real thing" .

My attention was again recently drawn to the self build projects offered by Suffolk with their well established SS100 and C types.

Considering these have been given a warm reception at various classic car shows can they be considered as classics or don't we think they quite cut the mustard?

http://www.suffolksportscars.com
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray,

I tend to lump them in with 'Elvis' impersonators.

Art
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
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Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray,

I tend to lump them in with 'Elvis' impersonators.

Art
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been looking forward for somebody to post this as a topic for a long while.

A garage proprietor here in North Wales who I have known for many years built himself a Proteus Jaguar C Type RECREATION in the late 1980s/early 1990s.
This was not some ill conceived GRP replica but a proper alloy bodied car with everything, and I mean everything properly reproduced. When I asked him about the cost, he winced but he admitted that the project had turned out beyond his expectations.

A Proteus recreation is the closest anyone will get to the real thing.
Instant classic if you like.

I think I am correct in saying that probably everybody here would, in their dreams like to own an AC Cobra, myself included. I have never seen the real thing, only in photos but I knew a gentleman from Dublin who used to stay here in the village on a regular basis and he had taken an interest in my Mark 2.
He told me that he was building an AC Cobra replica and when it was finished he brought it along for me to see. It was a Gardner Douglas kit, the Rolls Royce of the replicas and believe me, it was superb. No white striped bonnet - too distracting - he told me.
I'll not bore you with all the details but it had a 6.0 litre Chevrolet engine, Tremec gearbox, genuine Hallibrands and so on.

I asked as to the final cost. "You don't want to know and I don't want to be reminded" was his answer.

Now, ask yourselves if the Cobra replica is a classic - I honestly do not know.

I have seen one Austin Healey 3000 replica, last year in fact but with a lower dam spoiler, widened wheel arches and bolt on wire wheels.

No, not a classic but an attempt to replicate an icon in fibreglass.
Not for me.
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Keith D



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1164
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the 'genuine' camp only. I have absolutely no interest in replica vehicles using 2016 mechanicals.

But then there are the 'in-betweens' - a car that is totally original mechanically, but for whatever reason has had a replica body built and fitted. Or even a different original body from another car of the same make. For example, a tourer body fitted instead of the original sedan body. I believe there are so many vintage Bentley sedans running about with Vanden Plas tourer style bodies fitted that the sedans are becoming an endangered species!

I tend to regard these vehicles as 'kosher' because many 1920's vehicles were built without bodies.

My friend has a 1926 Chrysler, mechanically identical to mine. They are both tourers, but the bodies are very different. His body was built in 1926 by Holden (Melbourne), mine was built in 1926 by Richards (Adelaide). They were both sold new as the same car. Which one is genuine?

The whole subject gets very confusing!

Keith
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never judge a car by 'categories'. If I like it, it doesn't matter whether it's an original classic, a replica, a recreation or whatever. If I don't like it, the same applies.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riley541 wrote:
I never judge a car by 'categories'. If I like it, it doesn't matter whether it's an original classic, a replica, a recreation or whatever. If I don't like it, the same applies.


I like that approach. Some so called replicas are so poorly executed that they don't capture even the spirit of the original so I don't even give them a second look. On the other hand, top of the range replicas are exactly that; a true representation which is difficult to tell from the original. These to my mind are a pleasure.

There is then the middle ground in which small firms like the aforementioned Suffolk do good business selling their GRP replica SS100 and C types which can either be built in the factory or as a self build. The Suffolk SS100 is based on refurbished Jaguar XJ6 mechanicals and the body is a faithful representation but there are parts of the car which are so accurate they have even been used in the restoration of original cars!

So, its a fast, comfortable, every day car that to all intents and purposes looks exactly the same as an original Jaguar SS 100 but has better performance and handling. It is also all Jaguar. What's not to like?

Personally, I would enjoy building and using one of these beautiful machines
but there is the cost factor to consider. One hurdle I wouldn't have to jump is approval from my long suffering wife...she actually rather fancies one!
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PAUL BEAUMONT



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1281
Location: Barnsley S. Yorks

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is easy to take a purist stance on this - they are not classic cars in the established use of the term, they are replicas. they may be classic replicas, but replicas all the same. That said why should they not appear at classic car gatherings? My local car club includes classes for "Special Interest" cars in all of their shows. Should this term be more widely used?
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAUL BEAUMONT wrote:
I think it is easy to take a purist stance on this - they are not classic cars in the established use of the term, they are replicas. they may be classic replicas, but replicas all the same. That said why should they not appear at classic car gatherings? My local car club includes classes for "Special Interest" cars in all of their shows. Should this term be more widely used?


Yes Paul, I think "special interest" is a good expression and allows for the inclusion of 'specials', 'replicas' and 'modified' cars. If I had to categorise replicas I wouldn't consider them as true classics but given that this is a popular and growing sector it politely allows inclusion without contamination of traditional classic car objectives.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
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Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue I have with 'replicas' is, do they replicate the driving characteristics of the original?

I have a Dellow. In the 1970's, because of the sheer shortage of Dellows, and the respect held for their driving characteristics, a couple of Dellow 'Replicas' were made.

They are accepted within the Dellow register with equal respect.

Many original Dellows got themselves modified over the decades, in the search for improving things like power, reliability of certain components, etc.

So what is a Dellow?

I have an Ashley fibreglass body. An original owner was going to 'fit' it out with Mazda mechanics....I will be using Ford Pop chassis & running gear.....much as it was when they were originally produced.
The leery driving characteristics when pushing on, are what 'makes' sidevalve Ford-powered cars, for me. {Those characteristics hold no issues for me, either]

The appearance of the vehicle is somewhat secondary, for me.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22778
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
The issue I have with 'replicas' is, do they replicate the driving characteristics of the original?

I have a Dellow. In the 1970's, because of the sheer shortage of Dellows, and the respect held for their driving characteristics, a couple of Dellow 'Replicas' were made.

They are accepted within the Dellow register with equal respect.

Many original Dellows got themselves modified over the decades, in the search for improving things like power, reliability of certain components, etc.

So what is a Dellow?

I have an Ashley fibreglass body. An original owner was going to 'fit' it out with Mazda mechanics....I will be using Ford Pop chassis & running gear.....much as it was when they were originally produced.
The leery driving characteristics when pushing on, are what 'makes' sidevalve Ford-powered cars, for me. {Those characteristics hold no issues for me, either]

The appearance of the vehicle is somewhat secondary, for me.


Which model of Ashley do you have a body for?

RJ
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alastairq



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello...I believe......the 7 foot 6 inch wheelbase 1172 type....for the Ford Pop chassis.

Although, since most of the steel tube supporting frame is rotted away...but there is sufficient for me to take measurements to renew....
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
The issue I have with 'replicas' is, do they replicate the driving characteristics of the original?

The appearance of the vehicle is somewhat secondary, for me.


Recreating the look of a chosen car is one thing. Recreating the driving experience is something else. Some of these replicas use power units and suspension systems that are quite modern so there can be very little in common with the original. The Suffolk SS100 has XJ6 underpinnings so are nothing like the original on the road. The 4.2 litre engine and sophisticated suspension give a better overall experience but even with the 2.8 litre engine the drive is not going to be authentic. For the buyer of these cars, I think the "look" is probably most important.

I have mentioned before that I knew the late Duncan Hamilton who ran a classic car sales business opposite where I used to work, in Bagshot. He sold the occasional replica D type Jaguar similar to the Le Mans cars with which he was famed. He could be very plausible so when he told customers that the cars handled just the same as the factory racers they naturally believed him. The replicas had different rear suspension with different handling characteristics but were well received non the less.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
Hello...I believe......the 7 foot 6 inch wheelbase 1172 type....for the Ford Pop chassis.
...


Cool, I used to have an 1172 also.

RJ
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say that this is a nice looking motor and one capable of impressive all round performance.

Maybe not a "classic" but few of us can afford the real thing.


[img][/img]
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