Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22779
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: Tuning sidevalve Ford engines |
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ka dropped me a couple of emails recently, asking about the 1172 Ford engines:
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First time I have found your web site whilst browsing for other items. This may be off the subject for you, but do you know of anyone that has tuned the 10hp, and gone other than the aquaplane route? I have also tried Small Fords, and although they sell the tuning gear, they do not have much technical knowledge to develop it on, or moreover to make it work. ( I run an F Type Morgan, so I am quite at home with the old sidevalve, and have tried quite a few ideas to make it work)
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I replied back, suggesting the Willment IOE head conversion, and also the period trick of fitting a head from a Ford 8 onto the 10 engine (to up the compression a bit), and ka replied with:
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Thanks for your reply. I have done considerable amouint of work on the
engine, re-seated oversize inlet valves, ported, tuned exhaust,
crossdrilled/lightened/balanced crank and flywheel, midget clutch, 100e oil
pump, twin 1.1/4 SU's , skimmed 10hp head, increased capacitysump, oil
filter and cooler, The rolling road estimated 47bhp at the flywheel, but
torque is a problem with Mr Morgan's three speed box, which was why I
wondered if anyone alse had tried other routes. I cannot use the Wilmot or
Elva OHIV conversion as it put's me out of class when racing.
Another thought I had, was that there is an Historic group of speedway
drivers, using the old 10hp, do you have any contact with these?
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Can anyone help with further info on tuning up the Ford 10 lump??
ta, Rick
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buzzy bee
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Is there any alternative with gearing?
Cheers
Dave |
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Uncle Joe
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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From what I can see of the work that has been done to this engine, quite a lot of it, IMHO is not quite correct. Some basic sidevalve tuning mistakes have been made. Sidevalves CANNOT be treated (ie tuned) in the same manner as ohv's...thats the reason for the torque loss.
UJ |
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ka
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Side valve tuning |
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| Do you have some ideas on where to go with them? |
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Uncle Joe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I do. You will possibly have to start with another motor though, as well as find a really good machine shop. There is only one that I would have recommended, but I think that he has retired now.
UJ |
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ka
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: ford 10hp |
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| I have sent you a private message with my email address. I do have a couple of spare blocks, and access to a machine shop, and quite a bit of time. Looking forward to your reply. |
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Rick
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Posts: 22779
Location: UK
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Uncle Joe
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ka: I'll get back to you on this as soon as I can.
Rick: Do you think that this would be a good subject for an article on the main site? |
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22779
Location: UK
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ka
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:33 am Post subject: 10-hp |
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I will take some pictures and forward them to you as soon as I get the prop shaft finished, the torque tube soldered, and the gearbox back in. Should be done today as we have the VMCC racing AGM on Sunday at the Bike Museum.
Again, linking to an earlier question, the standard Morgan gearbox uses 190 grade oil, when the weather is cold requiring double de clutch up and down the box. Many of the racers use Castrol R in their box (there is a need for an oil that does not eat the bronze wheel) but after a conversation with Morris Lubricants, they suggested their fully synthetic gearbox oil. This makes for more consistant gear selections, and less drag when cold.
Any-one any thoughts? |
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Rick
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Posts: 22779
Location: UK
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Sidevalve
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Location: West Herts UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rick, Ka and everyone
Having found this thread I felt I should respond, although I'm not sure I have much to contribute.
Like Ka I have a Morgan three-wheeler fitted with a Ford 8hp engine. Mine's been replaced with a post-war long valve engine, but is a standard engine.
I also have a Watford Cheetah (the ex Yvon Precieux car) which has a 10hp engine fitted with Aquaplane head, manifold and valve cover and twin Zenith carbs. I don't know if it has been modified internally.
I've not done anything to these engines, apart from maintenance. But I will at some point be looking at them from the point of view of further development, particularly the Morgan's 8hp, so I am interested in this thread.
A few members of the Morgan Three-Wheeler Club race these cars. The Ford Sidevalve Club and even the 750 Car Club must have members who have gone through this.
I hope this, my first post, is of some interest.
Jon
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1934 Moragn F4, 1959 Watford Cheetah, 1966 Morris Mini-Minor Traveller |
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22779
Location: UK
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ka
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: F4 |
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The easiest way to tune the 8hp engine, is to swop it for the 10hp engine!
All the later f4's were fitted with the 10hp, so this suggestion is not quite as extreme as it sounds.
Lots of bits available for both engines, Small Fords stock the major bits, and there are engineering works around that will re-grind mains, and grind big ends, and line bore rods to accept renault 4 shells. Pistons are available, but are few and far between, use the electronic auto-jumble (e-bay) to see what is available. The MTWC Mogspares, stock some of the items.
Please follow this link to see us in action,
http://www.mtwc.co.uk/galleries/racing_shots/curborough2007.shtml
Pitty there is no picture of me, but I was fastest F Type in Touring Mod', and the second fastest F Type on the day behind a Wilmot OHIV 100e version.
I have a role in this page, taken a couple of years ago at Wiscombe'
http://www.mtwc.co.uk/galleries/racing_shots/wiscombe2005.shtml
Kim |
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Rick
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Posts: 22779
Location: UK
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