Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[crown-graphic]

I recently found an old (pre world war 1) glass negative which was cracked and dirty but I have managed to get an image off it.http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w170/crown-graphic/Vintage%20Car/?action=view&current=car3small.jpg
Having posted it on my usual photographic forum I have had some good suggestions but no definite ID so all contributions gratefully received.
Suggestions so far are: Hallamshire, early Rolls Royce, a 1905 Oldsmobile, a Panhard & Levassor or something from Italian makers Minutoli-Millo.

[buzzy bee]

Hi

If no one knows it off heart, I can find out for you, but it may take a bit of searching, so I will wait an see what the other forumers say, if no defintive answer arises or I have a free couple of hours I will look it up for you. No garentees, I can find it, but I am pretty sure.

Cheers

Dave

[Scotty]

I'm going to hazard a guess at a c1903 Argyll 10/12 hp.

My reasoning is the car appears to be sporting three levers adjacent to the drivers seat. Alex Govan of Argyll patented the "Govan" gearbox which required two levers to operate its 3 forward + 1 reverse. If you look carefully you should be able to see the forward speed lever and the separate reverse gear lever, both beside each other. And if you look slightly to the rear of these two levers there is the long hand brake lever. I believe it was the only car of this period to be fitted with this arrangement - although I'm open to any other suggestions.

This is a 1902 model, where you can see the lever arrangement more clearly (however the radiator is an early type "Hozier Radiator") -



The bonnet in your photograph has period Argyll styling, with its "plated" side vents and a hand-grip recessed into each side, although what appears to be vents in the top plate of the bonnet is new to me, but perhaps they are a manufacturers improvement. It also appears to have a large engine / gearbox "under-tray", once again a common fitting to Argylls.

I can't say definitively its an Argyll as I'm still researching the marque, but its very similar to their 1903 model.

Scotty.

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Just to ask the question to you Scotty, could it not be a 1905 Argyll 16hp or 20hp, I have a front end view here of one, from what I can tell it looks very simmilar, but this is the first thing I have looked at so far?

Cheers

Dave

[Scotty]

Hi Dave,

Don't rely too much on front end views as there will only be a limited number of key identifying points. What is worth remembering is that from model year to model year certain features will be carried forward and others will be dropped. In this case for example the recessed bonnet handles are of an early type, whereas in later models, in the case you cite, the 1905 version they are gone.

Regarding it being a "16 or 20 hp"; its a 2-seater and many manufacturers sold their smaller, lighter models with a "small" engine as standard. It also could have been fitted with the 12/14 hp engine as it was a popular "fashion" option at the time, but as I say it was an option rather than the norm. The 16/20 & 20/24 hp engines were standard fitments in Argyll's longer wheelbase models such as their Roi des Belges - may I ask what leads you to think it may be a 16/20hp?

Scotty.

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Fair enough, I just thought that model as I have a few pictures of them, that are matching it, but like you say the wheelbase maybe longer.

I will have a look for the older smaller Argyll's in a moment and shout up if I find anything. I have a nuber of books and information sheets on the older cars like this, every time I see a cheap buy I buy it!

Cheers

Dave

[crown-graphic]

This is well outside my expertise and knowledge but geographically speaking the 1903 Argylle seems to fit as I am located in Newcastle upon Tyne. This car or the the photographer would not have had to travel far for plate to have eventually wound up in a local fleamarket. In terms of date it also fits in with the still common at that time use of glass negatives.
Steve

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Hmmm, not found anything, but the windscreen is quite high, the step looks slightly modified, but most interesting to me is the curtain below the car, and the half doors.

Well I think that is me for tonight at least!

Lets see what tomorow brings!

Cheers

Dave

[Scotty]

Hi c-g,

There was an Argyll main agent in Newcastle, which was George & Jobling, South Street, Newcastle.

I know that the "George" part of the partnership was very successful in competition using Argyll's and did a great deal to promote the brand in the North-east.
I don't have anything to hand about George himself, but I'm sure if you wanted to pursue the matter further your main reference library should have details of this famous dealership.

As a by-line; George & Jobling were large Ford agents up here in Glasgow when I was a small boy in the 1950's, the company obviously became an influential mover and shaker in the motor trade.

Scotty.

[Rick]

I notice that George & Jobling are listed in the 1907 RAC handbook, they were down as 'Repairers', with 'Cars on Hire' and 'Storage' listed as their services. Phone number 2202 and 2208 if that helps, or else Telegram: Motors

R
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[pigtin]

A picture of my grandfather in about 1927, taken near Haverfordwest.
I was once told the make of this vehicle, but am not sure if my memory serves me correctly.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/donthebat/GrandfatherGildeninhisgreengroce-1.jpg

[twodzusfittings]

I am no expert, but it looks like a Rolls. The pictures attached are of the oldest known and recently sold for 3.5M GBP.[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]

[buzzy bee]

Hi

Nope I don't think so, different back, different bonnet, well just different! hehe

Cheers

Dave

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

Pigtin your Grandfathers van front reminds me of a Clyno, but I'm at work with no reference books! It obviously was supplied into that area of South West Wales as DE was one of the registrations for that area for ever!
PAUL

[Rick]

for reference, a late 20s/early 30s Clyno from the main site:


http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/carphotos.htm

RJ
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Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
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