Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[drdean]

Hi guys

I have a 1956 Ford Sidevalve 1172cc 10hp.

I’ve noticed recently that’s it’s been becoming a struggle to push into gears 2 and 3 (top). These are both on the same selector rod.

Any suggestions as to why this might be?

Reverse and first seem fine (these are on a different selector rod) and I’ve checked the gear oil level and that seems ok too.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
Dean

[alastairq]

If you can get to the gearbox top, then I'd first check the detent springs and balls. These are behind the two big screws on either side of the top cover [selector thingy]....
The one controlling the 2nd/top gear selector will be on the left side,
These need 'cleaning out' otherwise they can get gummed up.
Another issue can be with the lid itself?

For top gear, the selector rod moves forwards into a little tin 'cup' that fills one of two holes in the gearbox casing, at the bell housing.
The 4 bolts that hold the selector cover down may have slackened off a bit, allowing the cover to move slightly sideways. Thus the selector rod will be slightly off centre for it's 'hole'.
Another problem could be wear damage to the gear lever proper, where it goes into the selector housing.
If accessible [I've just oe this job on my Dellow]... make sure the gearbox is in neutral, then, having unscrewed and removed the gear lever, take the cover off, and reassemble the gear lever to it on the bench. The sideways movement of the gear lever is quite small, and if the 'peg' part at the foot of the lever assembly is worn, it may not be properly grabbing the 2nd/top selector.

Whilst the cover is off, check the two little tin 'cups' that the selectors slide into when moved forwards..? There might be some sort of gunge, or debris hiding in there?
Also you can then see if the gears themselves are free to move back & forth[subject to the sprung ball bearings, of course]..a screwdriver suitably positioned can lever it back & forth. all very simple.

Anyway, my issues were 'jumping' out of top gear, or failing to find reverse, after the whole issue had been taken apart & looked at for another reason...I'd had the rear axle assembly off....the [remote] earchange had to be removed, and it had slipped into gear somehow whilst fiddling with the axle. The top cover has to come off to put the box back into neutral...proving the gear it was in wasn't 1st or top!! Then the cover is a swine to remove, as the selector rods will be forwards, into the bell housing.

Anyway, the issue of top gear not properly 'going home' was down to the selector lid/top not being quite aligned, causing the selector rod for 'top' to 'bind' in the little tin cup in the bell housing. Slackening the 4 bolts, then tapping the cover before tightening again has cured that....
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[drdean]

Hi alastairq

Thanks for those tips. I’ll take a look and see if I can narrow it down a bit.
I think I did notice a bit of rust around the ball of the gear lever.

The selector housing can be a pain. I had a common problem in the past where if I tried to ram into first gear (in frustration with a queue behind me) then the bottom of the gear stick would jump into the other selector finger. This was then a real pain as the car was now stuck in first and the gear stick would not move as it was locked in mid position on the wrong finger. The selector doesn’t like being removed if it’s not in neutral.

Cheers
drdean

[alastairq]

Hi

The main reason why the selector top doesn't like to be removed is if the gearbox is in 1st or top gear. The selector rods [one or the other] will have been pushed forwards so the end[s] have entered the bell housing holes.

If 2nd or reverse happen to have been selected, the top ought to come off, since the selector rod will have been pushed rearwards.

The amount of movement of the gear lever, at the top of the sprung cover [next to the gearbox] is quite small really.

This isn't the situation at the other end of the Pop's gearlever!! I seem to recall there being a considerable amount of 'flex' in the standard gearlever?
A [home made, its easy] gearchange is a lot more 'positive' in action.
Theoretically, a standard gearchange ought to be achieved using two fingers and a guiding hand posture.

How easy is it for you to remove bodywork around the top of the gearbox?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[drdean]

Yes I can get to the top of the gearbox quite easily. There is only a shroud over the gearbox. It’s not stuck in gear at the moment but 2 and 3 are “difficult”. I’ll take a look and see if it’s anything obvious.

[alastairq]

Take top off, take a peek?
I think, all you need to see is visible either in the top, or inside the casing.
None of it is black magic, honest.

It's an old Ford, after all...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[drdean]

Right I've got the selector off the gearbox and had a play with the gears.

Mounted the selector on a workbench and tried moving the lever.

The problem seems to be moving the gear lever across to the position where it would slide into gears 2 and 3. 1st and rev gears engage ok and when its in the right position 2 and 3 move easily too. So I don't think its the gears or the selector fingers. Everything looks clean and well oiled. I also removed the cap under the retaining screw and sanded a bit of rust off and oiled that too.

Here's the odd thing. When the gear lever is in the selector housing without the gear lever retaining cap screwed down - everything is perfect - smooth and easy. As soon as I screw down the retaining cap the lever gets really hard to move.

I noticed that at the bottom of the gear lever where the spring is there are a couple of nylon washers that are split. They have worked their way up the spring coils into the middle of the spring. Are these supposed to be under the spring or on top of it?

I think this is what's causing the problem. The gear lever movement is poor when the screw cap compresses the spring. It's not sliding nicely making the ball socket catch or stick rather than slide.

As I say when I slacken off the screw cap and decompress the spring everything glides nicely but this sticking seems to be something catching in the gear lever mechanism.

Hopefully. I've posted a photo of the selector below...

[alastairq]

Your spring looks to be of a larger diameter than any of mine. Is it the photo, I wonder?
There should only be one 'washer [#7207] , and none of my gearboxes have one present.

Is the spring a straight spring, or a conical one?

For the sake of driving ease, remove the busted washer? It has probably got to the stage where it is balking the lever from moving across.
You can always replace it, but I think it may simply be for anti-rattle purposes...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[drdean]

It’s a straight spring but it does look a bit big compared to the exploded diagram. Not sure where I can get a correct size one. Small Ford Spares don’t stock it.

No washer 7207 present either. Where does that go? On top of the casing screw thread? Or over it?

I’m wondering if the gear lever is sitting too low in the selector casing.

It seems odd that the selector works smoothly without the cap screwed down. Once it’s tightened it’s really hard to move the lever across into the 2-3 gear selector.

It’s almost as if fastening down the screw cap is clamping the lever or moving it so it can’t engage gears 2-3. Odd.

[alastairq]

[drdean]

Yes. I’ve contacted FSOC. The only problem is there is quite a lag between enquiry and delivery. They are going to look for a gear lever spring on the next visit to stores (next week sometime).

I drove her today with the selector screw cap not so tightly screwed down and everything seems fine at the moment. I think it was a combination of a bit of rust, dry selectors and the housing clamped too tight via the screw cap. I’ve loosened it a couple of turn and it definitely seems much easier to position the lever now.

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.

[alastairq]

I have a gasket made out of a thick piece of cork. [1/4 inch, I think?]

The hole needs to be 2 inches in diameter.
There really isn't much of a 'land' for the gasket to sit on, so they tend to get chewed up.

You could try a 2 inch diameter O ring, perhaps?

Or a more solid ally gasket? This can be thinner in outer diameter , thus less prone to breaking?

Or, worse case scenario, since the spring really isn't the issue methinks, why not wind a bit of string around the base of the threaded portion of the selector lid..and screw the gerlever cap down to this?

As long as there's a bit of sprung vertical movement a the gear lever[where it comes out of the top] the gearchange should be fine.
Mine is quite smoothe really....
Not a lot of oil will get thrown out of the gearlever really.

HAs you ever spun the engine over to check for neutral with the selector cover off??

Quite a fountain of oil gets chucked up by the lower shaft & gears.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.