Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[alastairq]

I have just watched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfU_NHFjnkI

From Ian Peter Strange, and his AC saloon.
In the extra bits he added to the end of his latest video, he shows his father's motoring records, which noted, amongst other thing, some fuel costs, etc...[from around 1962, in this instance]
Ian mentions his father noting the use of Cleveland Discol fuel..which at the time had ethanol in it.
Of note is the mention [on the record] that Cleveland Discol contained some 15% ethanol [as well as unleaded petrol]....
Which, given that none of the adverse effects of E5 and E10 that are trumpeted today, seem to have been noticed, in the [now old?]cars of the day?
For me, this begs the question of, is today's ethanol [even at 10%]....actually the stuff the fuel companies add that creates the issues so trumpeted in today's classic press/media?
Or are the harmful bits really other additives put int o make today's moderns perform to their best?

Anyway, given that there has been no real hard evidence of the percentage ethanol content in the 1960's Cleveland Discol fuel, I thought Ian's comment from his father's records to be something of a clue?

{ I would add, I am not intending to resurrect today's arguments regarding the efficacy of today's fuel, in our old bangers.}
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Rick]

I've mentioned Cleveland Discol before with regard to containing ethanol, and I was keen to find out the %age used, so that's interesting to read.

RJ
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Rick - Admin
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[Ray White]

I have mentioned this before (but not for several years) that my Dad would go out of his way to fill up the Morris 8 E series with Cleveland Discol when we were embarking on a family holiday. The extra performance gained must have been worth the slightly higher price.

It must have been good stuff because I remember the speedo registering 70 mph!

We used to joke that the car had square wheels!

[Bitumen Boy]

I've long suspected that the reported problems with modern ethanol blended petrol are not so much due to what they put in nowadays as to what they don't put in, namely the lead. Lead compounds are generally preservatives (for all that they are also poisons) and what modern petrol seems to be in need of is some sort of preservative. I had no issues using modern unleaded with Tetraboost lead additive; although I should say that was a few years ago before E10 came along.

[alastairq]

[peter scott]

Many years ago Ian contacted me and we exchanged quite a few emails. It turns out that the post war AC 2 litre used an almost identical chassis to the 1936 SS Jaguar 2.5 litre. The only difference was that the cross tube behind the crusiform has dip in the middle to accommodate the lower position of the prop shaft in the AC as it used a hypoid diff.

https://www.ac2litre.com/develop.html





Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Crashbox]

I've been using E10 in both old cars, the 2CV and the 1932 Morris Minor, since its introduction several years ago. The 2CV has spent months sitting under a cover, outside, and starts on the turn of the key and has sat on the M5 at 70mph with 'old' 'stale' E10. The little Morris has had more regular use (it's quicker and easier to get it out on the road than the 2CV) and I've been all over the UK in the last few years without any issues to report. I've probably done 2000-3000 miles on E10 in the 2CV, and closer to 7000 miles in the little Morris. No additives used in either car.
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1989 2CV

1932 Morris Minor S.V. Two-Seater

[alastairq]

[Cargy]

Although neither of the partners in the production of Cleveland Discol, the Cleveland Petroleum Storage and Finance Company and the Distillers Company, ever disclosed the precise alcohol level of their fuel, when the Chancellor put a 9-pence per gallon duty on alcohol used as fuel in his April 1938 budget, a financial analyst stated that the content was believed to be twelve and a half percent. Content was adjusted seasonally, there being a winter grade, so in spring 1938, the effect of the duty was to put up the price of a gallon of Cleveland Discol by just half a penny, to one shilling, seven and a half pence.

The Petroleum Storage and Finance Company, through its Cleveland Petroleum Products Division, already sold a trade-marked Cleveland Motor Spirit brand, Cleveland Guaranteed, which was tuppence cheaper than Cleveland Discol. Equally, Distillers Company was not new to the supply of alcohol-based fuel as it already sold its trade-marked Discol brand to racing motorists. In 1935, two pure alcohol racing fuels were put on sale: Cleveland Ricardo Discol Nos. 1 and 2, formulated in accordance with a Harry R. Ricardo patent of 1920. Both companies retained ownership of their respective brand names to the very end.

Cleveland Discol, declared suitable for compression ratios from below six up to eight to one, was on sale from March 1934 but disappeared during WWII rationing when all motor fuel was sold as Pool Petrol until 1948. In 1949, Cleveland reintroduced an alcohol blend called Cleveland Special, along with a benzol blend and a standard. It was only after ESSO bought Cleveland in 1954 that a revised blend of Cleveland Discol was re-launched on 4 May 1956. Suspiciously, they advertised that this was an alcohol blend containing a high-grade petrol not having excessive tetra-ethyl lead, meaning it probably had some. Customer demand ensured that Cleveland Discol and Super Discol were sold until the late 1960s, after which ESSO and star-rating took over.

Cleveland may have had the longest-selling British alcohol-petrol blends but they were not the first. By early 1931, Cities Service Oil Co were already selling the alcohol-containing Koolmotor Spirit, dyed a vivid green colour, lead-free and with an alcohol content described as high. It was, they said, suitable for compression ratios up to 5.72 to 1, considered well above the needs of most motorists. It was said to be a product developed by their American parent company and during Koolmaster Week in August 1931 it was advertised as Green Gas. Koolmaster was also the name of the Cities Service tanker which brought their petrol from America but it may be that they added the alcohol, made by the Solvent Products refinery at Dagenham, as their 1932 adverts said the alcohol was British. Content was adjusted for winter and summer grades. Koolmotor was only on sale up to WWII. DG

[Ray White]

I have also been in contact with Ian Strange. I have been following his blog on the AC 2 litre with interest. We were hoping to meet up but that is yet to happen.

On a personal note, Ian has his late father's car to restore which perhaps accounts for his incredible levels of patience and perseverance.