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SloResto
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Brake line flaring |
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I had new brake lines made up for the Ph 1 vanguard a couple of years back.
A friend advised that I should get the brake place to do a "double flare" at the ends of the brake line like the original specimens.
When I got the new lines back they had only formed single flares at the end of the brake lines.
I was a bit miffed by this but the guy assured me that singles were all that was needed even after I explained that the car originally had doubles nad that it was recommended to stay with doubles especially as the brakes were only a single system.
I accepted against my better judgement and next week fitted the new lines. i did notice that some of the connections had to be wound pretty tight to seal but nonetheless when tested eventually got no brake fluid loss.
My queston is - could anyone please tell me why a double flare is recommended over a single flare in this case. I have started to undo the lines and will take them to another brake place who say that they can turn the single flares into doubles. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4105 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi SloResto
All you need to do is get a brake flare kit from the likes of Machine Mart, (they are about £15) and to put the 2nd flare in, clamp the new pipes that you have had made in the "clamp" and tighten the tool up without any of the dies in place.
let me know if you want more pics
Dave |
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Phil - Nottingham
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 1252 Location: Nottingham
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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The double flare makes a better seal in the union and what is happening when you put a single flare into a union/fitting designed for a double is that on tightening up it actually creates a partial double flare from the raised hump inside the fitting/cylinder/union
This may not work as well as it should and with alloy fittings tightening up to make a decent seal can strip the threads in it or split the fitting/cylinder. This damage may develop over a time and brakes will be lost.
In short its dangerous and bad practice to do this so ask for your money back or buy one of the kits and DIY _________________ Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2 |
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SloResto
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 36
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys for your helpful advice. UK Dave I am not sure exactly what you mean by clamping them "without the dies in place". I'm guessing that you need the die to form the flare but hey I'm new to this discipline.
I got the impression that brake pipe flaring (especially double flaring) was a bit of a black art and that a novice or someone at least who wasn't doing it regularly may experience great difficuties with it.
Or is it pretty straight forward once you have had a few practise goes at it?
I'll have a bit of a search around my local auto shops in the meantime for the tool.
Thanks again
cheers
Mark |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4105 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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SloResto wrote: | UK Dave I am not sure exactly what you mean by clamping them "without the dies in place". I'm guessing that you need the die to form the flare but hey I'm new to this discipline.
IMark |
I'll post some pic's, later today.
Dave |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a bit intrigued by this topic. The thing that decides the kind of flare needed is the seat that in this case, the brake pipe butts up against. Surely the brake company would not recommend the incorrect flaring? If they did, then they would be putting one or more lives at risk...
Have they seen either the old pipes, or the cylinders (or whatever) they are used with? |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4105 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Did a quick double flare this afternoon (whilst waiting for paint to dry on some rise & fall brackets!!) , in mosts cases you could add the 2nd flare with pipes in situ, but I have taken picks of the whole process.
First pic the fresh cut pipe in the clamp
2nd pic first flare being created, note the die in place
After the 1st flare (this is what your pipes will have looked like when you picked them up?.
The 2nd flare is created without the additional die, its flaring the inside of the pipe.
And the pipe with doubel flare.
Whole process takes about 1 min per end, hope this helps.
Dave |
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buzzy bee
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
I have used a different tool in the past, but often seen those and wondered how they worked, may get one next time I see one.
Cheers for the guide!
Cheers
Dave |
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Uncle Joe Guest
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I use one of these tools myself, the only thing that I dont like about them are the marks that they leave on the pipe afterwards. I always worry that these marks will cause cracks or some other damage later.
Dont forget that if you are using copper to make the pipes, it has to be the type that is alloyed with nickel. |
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Scotty
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 883
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent post Dave - thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
Rick - Just a thought, perhaps posts like Daves could be archived into a "How to ......." section? They almost certainly would help people understand the dark art of classic vehicle ownership and some of the simpler jobs that need to be done with the aid of pictures, as per Daves example.
Scotty. |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22451 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes that really is a great contribution ukd, thanks for putting that together. I bought a pipe flaring tool a year or two back, but hadn't looked into how it works.
Who else thinks that a central archive of handy snippets like this would be a good plan? I could set up a category on here just for that, and I'd add articles in as and when they came along, probably standalone and locked, to keep things tidy
R _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop |
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buzzy bee
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 3382 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
It gets my vote!
Cheers
Dave |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7120 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a good suggestion.
Peter |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22451 Location: UK
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47p2
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2009 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Rick,
I would think that over a period of time an archive of golden tips could be built up and therefore be useful for members when they need information.
Rome as they say wasn't built in a day _________________ ROVER
One of Britain's Fine Cars |
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