Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Ellis · Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: Genuine 1971 Cooper S?

In early 1998 a young Mini enthusiast bought a 1971 Mini Coopers S from a part time motor trader who he had known for many years. The car was absolutely mint and he has kept it that way for thirteen years.
Circumstances change and he now feels it is time to move on and he has taken the tough decision to sell it.
He paid £5000 for it in 1998 and he has now found out that his treasure is in fact a fake. The V5 correctly describes a 1971 Cooper S but have a look at these photos and see if you can see through it :

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Good luck!
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
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Peter_L · Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:48 am Post subject:

Quiz Time ? Am I missing something here ?

Classic_Dave · Joined: 16 Jan 2011 Posts: 41 Location: Stafford

Not an expert; but the rocker cover looks from a standard block and the bumpers are don't have the overriders + the added extra on the ends.
I also understand that a fake can be made to look the real thing.

bob2 · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 1728 Location: Malta

It does look like the real thing, although as Dave pointed out it should have overriders but being a mark 3 S it did not have corner bars, the steering wheel is also from a mark 1 or 2, I tried counting the bolts on the head but couldn't, that might be the give away as from here it looks to be original having the proper servo, and larger capacity master cylinder for the brakes as well, the interior carpet does not look original ie not the factory one and as far as I rmember it should have face level ventilation at both ends on the so called dashboard Confused

michael1703 · Joined: 22 Jul 2009 Posts: 349 Location: suffolk

white roof - not conclusive
its got servo
twin carbs
has the righthand tank vent got pip clip?

I dont know,a lot of things are changeable in cars, you would have to look for things in the shell, is it a cooper s vin plate on a donor shell?

I dont think your friend will lose much money if any, if its a good car its worth £3500-£6000, a lot less than a cooper or cooper s

bob2 · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 1728 Location: Malta

mark 3 Ss were monotone although I think two tone was an option.

its easy to get a normal mark 3 mini to look like a mark 3 S, much easier infact than it is to get a mark 1 850 to look like a mark 1 S.
The mark 3 S did stand out less when parked near a contemporary 1000, only the boot badge, twin tanks, and wheels could give the game away.

Inglewood · Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject:

The car does not have a MkIII engine, it is a Cooper head (extra studs) but it is the wrong colour for a MkIII and does not have the correct crankcase venting.

bob2 · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 1728 Location: Malta

oh yes Inglewood is right, mark 3 engines were black but anyone can change the colour on an engine after all!

Peter_L · Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject:

The last Cooper S was produced in July 1971, so with a K plate this would likely to have to be one of the last made.

However, it still carries the Austin name on the steering wheel and rocker box.

Perhaps the overriders fell off, it should have had them.

........ and, who put all those swirl marks in the paint work !!!

Knowing the Chassis and Engine number would be useful.

Edit... (See Bob's reply) A late model Cooper S would have had a radiator cowl welded in. The Plate was moved to there.

bob2 · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 1728 Location: Malta

Now its got a mention I actually would like to know where the chassis plate is cause its supposed to be on the bonnet's slam panel on mark 3's but there's nothing there?

MVPeters · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Northern MA, USA

Once upon a time....................................

Once upon a time I could have answered this question easily, at least for the MkI cars. All you need is a Mini expert who has stayed current with later models.
I'd be looking, among others, for a 120-MPH speedo, additional bracing on the shell/subframe mounts, different off-set wheels, different half-shafts, a 12G295 head & of course the magic "matching numbers", assuming they haven't been changed.

If you ever find WAM10K it started life as a D-reg 1275S. By the time I'd finished with it, it had a full race roll cage, Downton engine, s/c gears & a Clubman front end etc etc etc..
DVLA now show it with a 998cc engine. So it looks like a 71 Clubman - sort of.
So is it an original '65 Cooper S?
So is it now a Cooper S or a Clubman??
or what?

Mike
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Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S'

Peter_L · Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

Hi Mike... I guess it is just like Geronimo's authentic battle axe.
It has had 2 new heads and 3 new shafts, but other than that, it is completely original

bob2 · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 1728 Location: Malta

oh well the only clue to a 'genuine' S would be matching numbers, the other stuff can be replaced!
even matching numbers sometimes are not a definite since the car could have been reshelled with the most obvious give aways transplanted to the newer shell!!

victor 101 · Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 446 Location: East Yorkshire

Original or not its a poor imitation of the early Coopers, other than the twin tanks it looks like a standard Mini on the outside, the interior looks pretty basic as well.

Ellis · Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: