Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[norustplease]

I don’t know if anyone has spotted this, but there are proposals afoot to enact legislation that will probably prevent the use of your classic car as a wedding car, without being subject to the requirements of private hire licensing. This is part of the Law Commission’s proposals for ‘Reforming the law of private hire and taxi services.’
If this goes through, all cars will have to pass local authority tests, all operators will require a license and be CRB checked, as will every driver, who will also require a medical and a Driving Standards Agency driving test.
This will be onerous and expensive and will probably put numerous classic and vintage wedding car operators out of business, as well as preventing private individuals from providing their cars for wedding use on an occasional basis.
The date for objecting to these proposals is quite soon, on August 10th and basically, whilst the classic car press have spent their time griping about the new MOT legislation, this has sneaked under the radar, and will have a potentially far wider effect on the Classic Car movement, than the abolition of MOT’s for pre 1960 cars.
If this affects you, or you feel that it is inappropriate, then get a move on and object before it is too late.
_________________
1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV

[ukdave2002]

Had a very quick look at this, as i see it..... The obligation is still with the operator not supplier , So don't think much has changed?

D

[norustplease]

Not quite sure what you mean, no change.
http://www.classicandvintage.co.uk/blog/fight-the-death-knell/ gives the full picture.
This will particularly hit those owners in the classic car world who use their cars for occasional wedding use, to help with running costs, etc. and may make it uneconomic for larger firms to run classics and vintage cars...this in turn will hit the companies that help maintain those cars, the part time drivers that they use...and so on and so forth.
_________________
1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV

[ukdave2002]

This legislation is for commercial operators; any additional costs would be offset Somewhat by tax relief.

If operators need to increase cost due to this legislation, it's a leval playing field, the number of weddings will not decrease!

Most classic car owners are suppliers not operators, so will be subject to the local arrangement they have with an operator.

Don't see much will change, Prices may have to rise if legistation increases costs, but the number of weddings will be the same!

There is legislation in the classic car movement that we need to fight...this ain't one if them!



D

[Uncle Alec]

As far as I can tell, the case has long been that if providing cars for a wedding for hire or reward, you should have a taxi/PSV licence, appropriate insurance, CRB check etc etc. No local authority to my knowledge has enforced this but they could have. The fact that people have been running a part-time wedding car hire business for years without being bothered doesn't mean that they have been doing it legally.
If some pernickety council wanted to look into this you wouldn't have any defence if you were providing the service for reward.
Personally, when I do a wedding or similar, I do it for free. If I am not doing it for reward, I am in fact just giving them a lift to somewhere, and there are no restrictions on that! Yet.
Uncannily, all the happy couples for whom I have driven are generous supporters of some charity or other for which I have a soft spot.

[Rick]

Here was me thinking I could easily go into business ferrying people to and from church in the back of the truck ah well

RJ
_________________
Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop

[Uncle Alec]

Fair point Rick; I hadn't considered funerals.

[Rick]

[mid]

I run a wedding car business with my two vintage cars, i dont make much money from it, all of the income goes back into the cars, advertising insurance etc. for me its just a means to allow me to afford to keep up my hobby and keep 2 beautiful cars

i have specific insurance that covers me for 'hire and reward for use in connection with a wedding only' any other from of 'private hire' i.e. special occasions, proms etc is not covered or allowed. i have full public liability insurance

The current taxi/private hire ruleing states that wedding cars (and funeral) are exempt from the taxi licencing requirements.

under this new proposal, I would be treated as an taxi/private hire operator and as such have to be licienced. (an pay for this) the cars would have to be tested, (i'd pay for this too) and as i understand it from other companinies who have tried in the past, this would mean that full seat belt installation, emmisions testing etc etc etc - there would not be a 'reduced test' as such and the age of the vehicle would be irrelevant (strange that the government feels that the vehicles of this age do not need an mot?!?!?) from what i can gather, without serious modification, the vintage vehicles would not pass this taxi test anyway.

I currently have 10 drivers that i can call upon who are insured on the vehicles, under this proposal i would have to pay for each of them to be licenced and tested at a cost of £330 each

I currently do about 8-12 weddings a year, i'm one of the cheapest opperators in my area but still we get questioned about our prices as most weddings only involve short distances between house, church and reception (they dont seem to understand the whole day of cleaning and preperation, the test drive to establish the best route, the advertising, insurance etc etc..) so even if i could get the vehicles and drivers licenced, to then suddenly double the costs to cover it is not going to do me any favours.

most wedding car hire companies are small 1, 2, or 3 car businesses - they will all be put out of business. the way i see it the only 'vintage' cars that will be able to be licenced and used for this purpose will be the custom made Beaufords, and Regents etc- basically kit cars trying to look like a vintage car (and failing in my opinion!)

if this goes through then i'll be forced to sell both my vintage vehicles as i will just not be able to afford to store and run them. there are also suggestions that this will also effect the price if this style of vehicle as no one will be buying them for the wedding trade.

I for one, have definitely signed the petition! http://www.change.org/petitions/wedding-cars-stop-them-becoming-taxis


sorry for the long post but i only just found out about this after returning form my holiday and its not put me in a good mood!

[JC T ONE]

We have the same "sheit" here in Denmark probably some "wonderfull" idea, the horrible EU came up with

I saw that you guys get to wote on EU again , wish it was us .
_________________
http://www.eurods.eu/wp/index.html

[norustplease]

[Jim.Walker]

I have a suspicion that all this comes from checks in the London Area quite some time ago on stretched limmos. Many of those were used for weddings etc. Of course most are left hand drive. And many proved to be badly maintained.
Requiring a private hire licence would eliminate left hand drive cars immediately and vastly improve maintenance.
When I managed a taxi and private hire Company we were very careful that our Wedding and Funeral cars were never used for anything else or private hire testing/licensing would have compromised us. Though we did have a couple of Ford Dorchester stretched (right hand drive!) limousines "plated" for private hire work for 7 passengers on other than Funerals and Weddings.
The stretched American Limmo people seemed to ignore all requirements for passenger and vehicle safety for years and the pending legislation to bring them into line has roped in classic vehicles as well.
Jim
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!

[Riley Blue]

[norustplease]

What became of this legislation proposal, does anyone know?
There seems to be nothing current in the Internet that I can see.
_________________
1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV

[mid]

from the "National association of wedding car professionals"

Well the first round is now over and done with. The feedback I have been able to glean from various sources is that the Law Commission is quietly saying that there may well be some reasons for the exemption for wedding and funeral cars to continue but that will have to be up to the Minister involved. So it seems that clause 42 will remain in the draft bill presented to the Minister and that we will have to lobby all over again but this time directly to the Minister who can make the decision to continue or remove the exemption.

The draft bill is due to be presented to the Minister at the end of November 2013 but with all the responses the Law Commission have received this is very likely to be delayed to early or mid 2014. During the intervening time we have to grow as the National Association in order to be taken seriously by the Minister and Parliament and participate in negotiations as to our fate, as part and parcel of the wedding services industry not the transport industry. The national associations for the private hire and taxi industries have many tens of thousands of members. We can never aspire to those sorts of numbers as our total industry comprises around 1500 companies nationwide.

If the Minister does not continue the exemption he/she may well decide on a different form of licensing, if so we need to be there to negotiate the best possible outcome for the continuation of our industry and a wonderful British tradition. We won’t be able to do that without a really strong association representing at least half of our industry.

Should the final draft bill reach Parliament - not likely before the end of 2014 early 2015 it would take somewhere in the region of five to six months to be passed or not. It is almost certain the bill in one form or another will be passed. But during its transition through the Commons and the Lords the clause, with vigorous campaigning by us as a body and you as individuals, could well be deleted by the MPs/Lords. If the worst comes to the worst my guess is that we would be out of business late 2015 or early 2016, probably with a wind down period of around 18 months.