Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ellis]

I semi retired in February 2008, sold my everyday vehicle, a Ford Transit Connect van (great van, heavy on diesel) and started to use my 1962 Series 2a Land Rover for general use - pottering around, towing a twin axle trailer and so forth.

The 2a was a moving road block, 17-18mpg from it's original 2286cc petrol engine, brakes which were really not up to the job of towing a heavy trailer and it was not a pleasant or successful experiment. The pros were free road tax and unlimited use and mileage insurance for £90 pa.

Not wanting to buy anything new I sought the advice of an old school friend who is a wizard mechanic. He told me to buy a 200tdi engine from a time expired Land Rover Discovery and some other bits and pieces and when obtained he set to work...........

Here is a photo or two of the result :

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Such was his skill, he did the work in two days adding, as you can see, a remote servo, oil cooler and a Kenlowe fan which I had bought years ago.

The Land Rover was transformed - powerful, economical, good brakes and actually enjoyable as an everyday vehicle. I retained the original 2a semi crash gearbox which has never been a problem for me.

Were such modifications justified on an otherwise original 50 year old vehicle?
Had the Land Rover been a full historied and pristine original, I don't think so, to be honest. But it was/is not.

However, there is one important point to all this - all the changes are all reversible apart from a drilled hole or two.

Where do you all stand on the issue? I look forward to reading your views.

Ellis[/img]
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Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[clan chieftain]

Good topic Ellis. I am always in favour of originality. These guys that drop V6s into Minors and Jag back axles I dont agree with. As you say yours is reversible.
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The Clan Chieftain

[Jason]

I think certain mods that help with the vehicles running are very acceptable, I fitted my 1949 Alvis with an alternator in favor of the original dynamo, the alternator is far superior at charging the battery but it means the car is now negative earth instead of positive earth............what annoys me is the 'originality police' having a go every time they see something that isn't original.
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"people with money buy a Rolls Royce, people with taste buy an Alvis".

[D4B]

[Rick]

If the mods are reversible, and undertaken on a vehicle that isn't so scarce as to make any changes from original an act of heresy, then I don't really see a problem - so long as it doesn't involve cutting about the bodywork, chopping the roof etc which is getting into custom territory.

Ideally the uprated/altered parts would be from the same family, as in your Landie's case - I'm no fan of introducing parts to one make of car, sourced from another.

I'm not keen on changes that significantly change the character of an old car, but I do understand why cars used on a regular basis would be uprated if, for example, motorway trips were regularly encountered.

With my truck for instance, I wanted that to be as period-correct as possible, and we went to great lengths to try and achieve that. If I was running say a 1950s Minor as a daily driver, then sensible upgrades such as an alternator, seatbelts, and maybe a switch from the 803cc to a 948cc or 1098cc version of the A Series engine, wouldn't be unreasonable and represent changes that would have been commonly made when the type was a regular sight on the roads anyway. However a Fiat twin cam lump might be a step too far for me, despite such swaps having been made for a long time now.

RJ
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[colwyn500]

I am an admirer of ancient cars that are used regularly I think that a project such as this one is admirable because it's been done to maintain and extend the use of the vehicle.

I read an article in Practical Classics several months ago about a pre-war Austin Ten that had been fitted with a small, modern Japanese (Daihatsu I think) diesel engine. The car still looked like it had driven all the way from about 1955 without stopping. The chap who had done the work is exactly the sort of person we would all identify with, and no harm had been done to the world.

I know that it's often logically unavoidable, but more "damage" is done to historical accuracy by some of the higher end of the "body-off, total rebuild" brigade.

[Rick]

[ukdave2002]

As long as its reversible, its ok in my book, and if putting a modern engine in means the car is used everyday rather than locked in a garage, I think that is ok to (as long as its reversible and didn't involve chopping things like the bulkhead and floor tunnels up!!)

In terms of mods I would fit electronic ignition especially on 6v vehicles, hidden so it all looks original.

All that said I know a Morris 8 (series 1) driver who uses his car 5 days a week all year,all weathers; for a 90 mile round trip including motorways, the car is standard; its the white metal bearing engine, 3 speed box, 3 brush dynamo, he wants it to be as standard as possible. It can be done.

Dave

[34HF90]

I think it does depend if it is reversable- but is it? At the moment, there are still plenty of spare 2 1/4 engines around (many from Land Rovers that may have had 200TDi's installed). So the conversion is reversable at the moment.
Whether that will be the case in 10 years- I wonder.

I also think that the future availability and cost of TDi spares might be questionable too. At the moment everyone is doing it; swopping 2 1/4 engines for TDi's. I wonder how much scrabbling for parts there will be to come?
Of course this applies to every engine conversion, but things tend to move fast nowadays- and much gets scrapped that previously would have languished in the back of the yard for years....

So in terms of practicality- yes. But as to whether it will ever, in fact actually be reversed...only the owner could answer that one.

It does concern me that despite the best of intentions, the TDi conversion on a Land Rover may be the thin end of the wedge for further mods by subsequent owners (leading to a 'bitsa') or sounding the eventual death knell for the vehicle because of the future lack of parts.


My own prefence would be for an LPG conversion on a petrol Land Rover. No major mods and is absolutely reversable.

[colwyn500]

Rick, don't get me wrong; with my current restoration of a Fiat 500, I removed the whole front end, patched up the inner wheel-arches, I had to replace the wings but I patched the bottom of the front panel and refitted it. these panels are easily and inexpensively available but I wanted to keep as much as I could of the old car. I refuse to do the common and easy thing and put a 126 engine in it. The seats and interior will just be cleaned and put back. It's just that I think that there is a place for everyones' approach and I particularly admire people who DO big things to their cars. I think that includes most of us here.

[baconsdozen]

Sometimes it horses for courses.
I like to see original vehicles but modifacations to improve performance,or reliability or changes where original parts are impossible to obtain have their place.
One of my vehciles in a Mk1 transit camper.http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/motorhome/transit.htm I modified the engine but it isn't noticeable unless you look very closely under the bonnet.I also fitted disc brakes with a larger servo and an overdrive gearbox.This means its more economical to run and safer too.All the mods are easily reversible and without them I doubt the vehicle would have much,if any use.
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Thirty years selling imperial hand tools for old machinery(Now happily retired).

[pigtin]

An excellent modification. In this area there are probably hundreds of Land Rovers rotting in peoples gardens because they are too expensive to run.
They love the cars so much they don't want to get rid of them but can't justify the expense of the fuel. Anything that keeps an old car on the road and is reversible is ok to me. In this case reversability doesn't really matter as the vehicle is so common and would just be left to rot otherwise.
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Due to the onset of my mid eighties I'm no longer sprightly and rarely seen in my Austin special. I have written a book though. https://amzn.eu/d/7rwRRqL

[colwyn500]

I agree Pigtin.
Just look at the number of Austin 7's for instance. There must be loads of mongrels out there. It doesn't matter; some of them have developed a history and patina of their own. From day one, people have been "souping up" cars with uprated parts and the next generation engines as these became available.
I don't see anything wrong with an honest and well executed modification that keeps me seeing more cars on the road.
As for reversibility; nothing wrong with that in principle, but how often will it ever be done?

[peter scott]

I don't like to see modern components in old vehicles. I like to see them as they were when they were in everyday use.

I don't stick religiously to originality and will make improvements if they are invisible. I fitted a 1940s heater to my 1939 car which was never fitted originally. I also fitted a later higher capacity oil pump and converted my front brakes from leading and trailing to twin leading shoes and I run on semi-synthetic oil. (only because fully synth is rather expensive when the sump holds 20 pints.)

I will confess to one visible out of period replacement, a stainless steel exhaust system.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Riley Blue]

Manufacturers seldom left cars alone during a production run. Modfications to improve performance, safety and comfort were (and still are) common so if it's acceptable from manufacturers I see no reason why owners shouldn't do similar to suit their own requirements.
In my Riley 1.5 I've changed the seats to make it more comfortable, fitted a brake servo to make it safer and fitted alloy wheels and wider tyres to make driving it more enjoyable - after all, it's my car