Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[rcx822]

It's electric heater. I might then warm the garage up prior to spraying.

I think there are modern paints which only require a mask, without forced air (according to book). I'll get advice from the paint shop. I don't need to use two pack, and I don't have any rust areas or bare metal that requires epoxy primer. Just sealer and colour.

Shame about cellulose paints. Apparently they are pretty good, fast drying, easy to use, cheap.

[ukdave2002]

A couple more tips

Plan how you are going to paint; generally top down so that any dust hopefully doesn't fall on a wet panel.

Purchase more paint than you need, this ensures you have the same colour throughout and have some to keep in case its needed in the future.

Have a practice run with the gun and the air line..without paint just to identify any areas that may be difficult to reach, or where the airline hits a bit of the body that you would have just painted !

Keep the gun at 90 degrees to the panel, and practice keeping it about 8" away.

Paint things like door shuts or the inside of other apertures first.

If the doors, bonnet and boot are still on the car, mask them up, paint the wings and shell, then (when the paint is dry) mask the wings and shell and paint the bonnet, doors and boot....you will find it much easier to paint the car in sections where the gun can be opened and closed on masking paper rather than on an adjacent panel.

There are no precise rules for setting a spray gun up, temperature , paint viscosity, air pressure, gun nozzle size all play a part...the gun will come with some basic instructions, including things like air pressure. Remember air pressure at the gun will be lower than the pressure in your compressor, you can fit a gun gauge but its not essential. I set then gun up as per the manufactures spec, then spray a horizontal pattern at 8" you are aiming to get an even oval that's about 8" wide 2" high (or what the gun instructions recommend), spray on to masking paper without moving the gun for 1 second, the paint should run across 90% of the oval, if it runs in the middle only adjust the fan, if it doesn't run increase the paint flow on the gun and or add some more thinners to the paint, the same test with the trigger pulled for 1/2 a second the paint shouldn't run. If the paint isn't atomising you may need to increase the air pressure. Get this right and spraying will be so much easier, with a little practice you can then get the speed of the sweep right by spraying onto some masking paper at a speed where the paint flowing but not running. Most spraying will of course be done with the fan in the vertical position.

Cheers

Dave

[rcx822]

[colwyn500]

Dave's right; the nozzle on the gun can be loosened and rotated to make either a horizontal or vertical oval depending on what suits the situation.

Your original paint, however flat and tired, will have traces of oil, grease, wax, silicone and other things which will really mess up your paint. So you start with a "clean sheet" by giving it a good clean rather than rubbing the contaminants into the paint as you sand.

[Ray White]

Colwyn, you mentioned the S word! Silicone! This is probably the biggest headache these days. It is seemingly everywhere and the slightest amount can ruin a paint job. It never seems to go completely even with the correct solvent. I imagine it just moves from one surface to another! Of course it doesn't but I sometimes despair!

[rcx822]

Ah, we forgot one obvious thing, single stage paint (ie no clear coat) won't match the existing paint if it uses two stage.

I will try to find a supplier today and see if they have a usable safe paint system to recommend.

I've looked at renting a forced air mask, even rental isn't cheap. Or buy a used one on eBay and sell. Maybe things are getting too much at that stage considering the job.

So what are others using on their classic projects? Cellulose where possible?

One more question. If a car has been done with a final clear layer, does that mean that if the paint ever needs repair, the entire panel needs redoing? Or is it possible to put colour on top of clear coat on the part of the panel that needs repainting, and then clear again? Wouldn't think that would work though that's what my book is suggesting. But I've read online that's not possible.

[ukdave2002]

Hi rcx

I paint in 2 pack, and use solid paint rather than clear over base. The main reason for using a solid paint is that in the home workshop dirt is the devil ( or one of them ) and having to put a clear coat over the base colour doubles the chance of picking up some dirt in the paint.

A clear over base painted panel can be part repainted, in which case it is normal to remove the clear coat over a much larger area than the area that needs repair ( to a style line or shut line) paint the smaller area with the base colour using fade in thinners and feather in to the original paint, Then clear coat over the larger area, again with fade in thinners.

If you go down the 2 pack route, remember it can harm you, the compressor needs quite a bit of grunt to supply the gun and a mask. The compressor must draw in clean air. A mask will cost you about £150 so not a massive cost in the scheme if a complete respray, you need charcoal filters as well ,some mask kits include them. I don't have forced air in to the garage, but I only tend to paint one panel at a time.

Cellulose can be polished up to give a great finish, as was done for many years, despite rumours to the contrary it is still widely available , although technically can't be sold to paint a "modern" vehicle.

2 pack can be polished up so much that it looks plasticky , if you are worried about this the paint supplier can add some matting agent to the stuff that gives the gloss, just tell them what you affect you are trying to achieve.

I also find 2 pack easier to correct runs and orange peel when it's set, as there is more depth of paint to play with.

Dave

[rcx822]

Oki. To be clear 2 pack means paints that use a hardener. Two stage means base and clear/lacquer?

I spoke to a supplier. He's recommended poly base coat, saying it's safer but won't comment on whether it should be used without a full forced air mask. He's given me links to data sheets to read up which I will do later.

I also asked out of curiosity what the deal is with cellulose, he said it won't match the colour a modern metallic paint so won't be useful on modern cars, but is available in all non metallic colours, they just need a colour reference to mix it up.

[ukdave2002]

[Rene]

Don't forget..........2 pack cannot be used if the car is painted with a cellulose paint...........funny nobody has mentioned this.
Using a charcoal filtered mask will be good enough if painting is'nt a day job.
I use always a 2 pack with clearcoat as i find it easier and quicker,if you apply several coats of clear it"s easier to sand and polish dust and runnings away,less risky because you sand the clear only and damage the base coat.
René

[kevin2306]

Rene, I have to disagree with your opinion of using a charcoal mask for 2 pack, it needs proper filtration and ventilation.
You can work with asbestos quite easily using a scarf wrapped round your face but it doesn't make it any safer.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/bodyshop/isocyanates.htm

Not worth the risk in my eyes

Kev

[Rene]

Kevin you"re right ofcourse,what i ment was in case of the T S.spraying a few touch-ups or a wing/door.
Buying a air mask,fresh air compressor and so on only to do a paint job which also can be done with a rattle can is slightly overdone in my opinion.
Health is become an issue over the years.........and it"s getting more and more worse.
For an example:
When spraying 2 pack or other paint with a spray gun i use an fresh air mask,when spraying with a rattle can mostly just blow my nose afterwards.......
I am a welder by profession,use a fresh air welding mask with all sorts of welding and grinding at work,when in the shed welding and grinding a car i use a normal welding mask and after grinding blow my nose......
Profession or hobby is what makes the difference.

[ajlelectronics]

[rcx822]

Bear in mind that everyone has a different interpretation of risk. Sometimes it's upbringing, sometimes personality, sometimes cultural, and some people just don't care. Some countries are very rule orientated and H&S obsessed, others not. And also government, authorities, businesses often have underlying agendas which make them issue H&S rules/advice/law, exaggerating some, other health and safety rules are just outright counter-productive. Some authorities issue rules just to show they're doing their job. And of course some are in fact good advice to follow.

I personally won't be taking any risks when it comes to poisonous chemicals, but having spoken to a few people on spraying I know it's not uncommon for people to not bother with full forced-air masks.

[ukdave2002]

As an ex loose head prop, I'm not particularly big on health and safety, to the extent that I know in my mind what the worse outcome will be for the risk I about to take, and have the scars, broken bones for my sins...I burned my hand quite badly last year oxy acetylene welding something that I really shouldn't have been holding

However when it comes to an invisible odourless chemical gas, that's known to affect different people in different ways and has killed, it's a different matter.....Cuts burns and broken bones generally heal, damaged lungs tend to be with you for the rest of your life, can be disabling in later years or add to complications with other illnesses, why when protection is available for less than cost of a single day off work anyone would want to take the risk with 2 pack polyester paint beggars belief ?

Dave