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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: Hello from North Wales and my first puzzle for you |
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Good evening to you all.
I'm Ellis Griffith from Betws y Coed in North Wales and I own a 1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre, a 1962 Series 2a Land Rover and my newest acquisition is a 1954 Series One Land Rover 86".
Right! Down to business.
If I do this right I'll show you two old photographs of old accidents by the Waterloo Bridge here in Betws y Coed. Have a look at them and read the remainder of this post after them.
[i mg]
[/i mg]
The first photgraph only has a date on it - 1926 - and can anybody identify the make and model of this car. It looks American to me and one suggestion is that it may be a Bean. Any ideas?
The second photo was taken in the mid 1930s and more is known. The car was being driven by a local lady, a Mrs Kate Parry from the village and she had only travelled 150 yards or so before this happened. She was shaken but unhurt and the car was pulled back to the road by a team of horses and driven away!
Can you identify the car? I think it is a Austin 10 or 12 but I will defer to your more detailed knowledge.
Both accidents took part on either side of the same bridge abutment.
Good luck and I look forward to your replies. |
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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22780
Location: UK
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baconsdozen
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Under the car.
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7212
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Ellis,
Welcome to the forum. Those are amazing photos. It's surprising how well the cars survived the fall.
I suspect your theory of the first being American is correct. The car has detachable rims but I don't think Beans were fitted with these.
Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Classic_Dave
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 41
Location: Stafford
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have an article on the bridge being widened, which is before both photos, I dig it out and see what year it was, may be helpful.
Edit
Bridge widened in 1923, so both photos afterwards. Amazing that both landed on all fours, and did not shatter to pieces |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Classic_Dave wrote: | I have an article on the bridge being widened, which is before both photos, I dig it out and see what year it was, may be helpful.
Edit
Bridge widened in 1923, so both photos afterwards. |
I would be very interested in seeing more about the above. Is there a book name or a reference you can give me, please?
The lady who was driving the car (Austin 10/12?) was shaken after her ordeal but not hurt I believe. There is a darker effect of this accident in that her son who was in the car with her became epileptic shortly afterwards. Whether the accident was the cause or trigger for his affliction cannot now be known but one cannot but wonder.
I am afraid I cannot give you any more information about the first incident or the fate of the driver. The original negative of this photo is owned by the current member of a generations old family of this local area.
You may be interested in a photo of another incident at the bridge after World War 2 :
[ ]
The African American driver of this USAAF aviation spirit tanker had the misfortune to suffer brake failure while descending the long hill which leads to the village from the East. Incredibly, he walked away from the carnage with only minor injuries and his dog which was with him in the tractor unit was unharmed.
The tanker was empty at the time. Just as well because a sizeable grid square would have turned to ashes if it had been laden.
The owner of this photo told me that the incident took place in June 1946 but this is wrong apparently. A USAAF and USAF expert on the Series 2 Club forum pointed out that although the tanker unit is from the World War 2 age, the tractor unit however is not and is from a later year.
I was informed by an elderly village resident that the recovery operation was one to behold. Sophisticated lifting equipment of the US armed services meant that the operation took less than one day.[/img] |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Classic_Dave wrote: | I have an article on the bridge being widened, which is before both photos, I dig it out and see what year it was, may be helpful.
Edit
Bridge widened in 1923, so both photos afterwards. Amazing that both landed on all fours, and did not shatter to pieces |
Found the reference. It also refers to additional work carried out in 1978.
I remember that well because the entire iron parts of the bridge were shot blasted and the workers on site had a very useful sideline in blasting clean any metal that the local population took to them.
I remember taking a set of Dolomite Sprint alloy wheels there and they were "done" in less than 30 minutes. £10 IIRC. |
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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22780
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Latest from my VSCC contact:
"The car in the upper photograph is a 1924 Essex, the first year of the six cylinder engines. The saloon / sedan they called a 'Coach', somewhat less elegant than a brick, and the suicide doors were unusual.
I cannot venture a suggestion as to the make of the second crash victim, but if the spare tyre is fitted to a detachable rim, that too could be an American car. It looks several years younger than the Essex."
RJ
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Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick wrote: | Latest from my VSCC contact:
"The car in the upper photograph is a 1924 Essex, the first year of the six cylinder engines. The saloon / sedan they called a 'Coach', somewhat less elegant than a brick, and the suicide doors were unusual.
I cannot venture a suggestion as to the make of the second crash victim, but if the spare tyre is fitted to a detachable rim, that too could be an American car. It looks several years younger than the Essex."
RJ |
Thank you! One part of the puzzle has been solved at last!
I asked the descendants of the lady who was involved in the second accident what type of car she was driving at the time and it was their opinion that it was a "big" Austin. Now that I have been informed it may not have been, I will ask them if they have any further photos of family vehicles from the 1930s.
Who knows? Something interesting may come to light. |
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PAUL BEAUMONT
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1281
Location: Barnsley S. Yorks
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Welcome Ellis! You have certainly posted some interesting pictures both in this thread and in your others. Thanks.
At the start of this thread you imply that Bean were American. To my knowledge they were from Wolverhampton or thereabouts and lastly were responsible for Reliant!
Paul |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| PAUL BEAUMONT wrote: | Welcome Ellis! You have certainly posted some interesting pictures both in this thread and in your others. Thanks.
At the start of this thread you imply that Bean were American. To my knowledge they were from Wolverhampton or thereabouts and lastly were responsible for Reliant!
Paul |
I have been looking at the first photograph for years now trying to find out the make and model. I always felt that it looked American and I have shown it to many interested parties. I drew a blank every time.
One person I asked in the past stated confidently that it was a White which was clearly ridiculous! A Bean was suggested by another interested observer and not knowing any different I could not comment but is why I made the reference on here.
That one is solved now and I can sleep soundly tonight or at least as soundly as a broken ankle will allow me.
I am still very interested in solving the identity of the car in the second photo. My nephew is a computer wizard with a very sophisticated system.
I will try and obtain the original photo again and ask him if he can enhance the image and try to alter the contrast and put some more definition in it.
What did you all think of the tanker accident? |
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PAUL BEAUMONT
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1281
Location: Barnsley S. Yorks
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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[quote What did you all think of the tanker accident?]
African American let loose with a big vehicle on north Wales roads ..... Inevitable!! 
Paul |
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Richard H
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 2150
Location: Lincolnshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Welcome to the forum Ellis, and thanks for sharing these great pictures. Amazing to think the drivers walked away with so few injuries. Are there still accidents at the bridge today? |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard H wrote: | | Amazing to think the drivers walked away with so few injuries. Are there still accidents at the bridge today? |
Unfortunately, Richard, yes and fatal ones I'm afraid.
The two mile long twisty hill which leads the A5 down to the bridge is a notorious accident black area even today.
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Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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Classic_Dave
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 41
Location: Stafford
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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EWG
The article I referred to, was from the NCE (New Civil Engineer) in 1978.
It was mainly about the works in 1978 but referred to the previous strengthening and widening in 1923.
Send me a PM with your email for a copy
PS
If you can get the original photo and scan it at a very high resolution, it is sometimes very surprising the detail that you can then see.
I found a photo with my Grandad things, that was of some family gravestones circa 1910, scanning it and zooming in we were able to read the inscriptions on graves in the background, that were hardly visible on the photo.
PPS
Betws-y-Coed is where I first paid £1 per gallon during spring Bank Holiday in 1979!! (13/60 convertible) The garage close to the bridge. Also a very wet Bank Holiday if you were camping! |
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