Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ellis]

Do you remember the first advertisements for the (Austin?) Metro back in 1980?
It showed landing craft laden with Renault 5s, Fiats, Nissans and VWs attempting a landing on an English beach and ended with Metros parked on a cliff head observing the invaders having been repelled.
All very jingoistic these days, probably EU unfriendly even but it made a point now sadly lost by everybody these days.

I viewed the Stag's unveiling in 1970 in a similar vein. It looked as good as the Mercedes SL series, nicer than the first similar BMWs and price wise, it undercut them both.

Only 25877 Stags were built in seven years and not the 100,000 + that was hoped for. I wanted a Stag as soon as I saw one in the metal and ultimately bought two which I have referred to in another thread. I was lucky, I had no mechanical problems with either of mine but the first thing I had done with the second one I bought was to have new timing chains, a new oil pump, a new radiator, an additional Kenlowe and a mega service.
The mileage? 29000. That sort of overhaul in 1980 would be expected on a 100k mileage car and not a three and a half year old , 29000 mile one.

The defects of Triumph's innovative V8 have been debated for years and this particular post will steer clear of those. Enough has been written.
The Stag was withdrawn from sale in the USA in 1973 and angry owners junked the Triumph V8 and replaced it with small block Chevrolet and Ford V8s. From what I have read they became excellent if unoriginal cars.

Ford Essex V6 and Triumph 2.5 PI or the TC version found their way into many Stag engine bays and a whole industry built up, HME - Hurley Motor Engineering in Birmingham was one that specialised in the Ford V6 conversion.

Many a Rover P5b and Rover P6 V8 found a new home in the Stag's engine compartment and I drove one or two. The first was in Rhyl in a 1974 manual Stag with an ex P5b V8. There was an unsightly lump in the bonnet to allow clearance for the Strombergs and I was glad to get out of it after a drive. The front end felt unstable, the brakes were frghtening and they snatched and it wasn't that powerful either.

I took a pride in keeping my Stag original and viewed engine conversions with suspicion. Until October 1988.

One afternoon I was pottering about when a young man approached and looked at my Stag which I had put out in the Autumn sunshine. We started talking and he asked if I would like to see his 1974 Rover V8 conversion some time.
A week or so later the front doorbell rang and on opening the door there he was with a magnificent dark blue Stag parked outside my front gate.
It looked fabulous, It had all the 1980s "updates" - cream coloured hood, cream leather upholstery, dark blue carpets, walnut where the Formica used to be, bolt on chrome wire wheels which has been especially ordered from the USA and a paint job the like of which I have rarely seen since. Even the whitewall tyres looked right.

The owner explained that he had bought the Stag with a broken engine for a pittance two years previously and he had done everything bar the engine work himself. His workmates had "done" the engine conversion and he then opened the bonnet to show what I really wanted to see.
The twin plenum chambered fuel injection V8 from a SD1 Vitesse. There was fuel injection thus no power bulge in the bonnet, the radiator panel had been professionally altered to accept the SD1 radiator.
The SD1 five speed gearbox had used as well, derated springs had been installed to solve the weight difference of 170lbs between the two engines. The brakes bias had been altered and the quality of the conversion was one to behold.

The test drive. It drove better than any Stag that I had driven before, my own included. The acceleration was brutal and it handled far better than mine. Top speed? He admitted seeing 120mph plus on the speedo and it was still accelerating when he backed off.

Boy was I jealous!

Spen King in an interview in Classic and Sportscar some years ago said that the Rover V8 engine in a Triumph Stag "was not a practical engineering proposition although I accept others have done it since....."

Did British Leyland try hard enough?

(I apologise for the length of this post but I do enjoy recounting this experience 23 years on)
_________________
Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[Inglewood]

[Ellis]

That's the one!

Exactly as I remember it 30 years ago.
We actually bought one of the first Metro 1.0 HLEs in the area - a Snapdragon Yellow one - YJC 276W.
My mother was driving it home from Anglesey when it was 6 weeks old when she found that she could not engage any gear with the clutch depressed.
A whole batch of the early ones had been assembled without a vital bush in the gear selection mechanism which led to the entire engine/gearbox moving on their mountings!
_________________
Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[Richard H]

I'd love an early Metro. One of the oldest known survivors was at Brooklands last weekend, it got plenty of interest.


Cavalcade (32) by Austin7nut, on Flickr

[smiffy220]

Ok, got to be honest here (sorry Richard H), but I hate Metros!! I'm not moaning as lots do about all things BL, I liked the Montego, and the Maestro seems ok, although don't know much about them, but the Metro's were the bain of my life in my early days of driving through the mid 80's! I kid you not here, but it seemed everywhere I went, be it commuting to work or out with friends, whenever I got stuck in a queue of slow moving traffic, there it was, a Metro at the front! I came to the conclusion they had 2 speeds, slow or stop. I once got stuck in a queue on the way to work in Billericay behind a snake of cars crawling along about 15-20mph in a 60 limit and there I could see a milk float at the front. Ah, that explains it thought I, until then rounding a right hand bend, I could see the real cause of the delay, A METRO! It was holding the milk float and all the others up.
That was the last straw for me, they became a passionate hate figure of a car for me, and it seems to still grate to this day, hence my writing this. So apologies to all Metro lovers, maybe they weren't so bad, but the drivers were!!
I did get a ride around Snetterton once in a 6R4 however, now that's a different car altogether..............

BTW, I think a modified stag or original one, in good condition and as long as there's a healthy mix of both still on our roads, still look great.
Dave
_________________
Born to rally, forced to work!

1980 Opel Manta 2.0 SR Berlinetta
1934 Morris Cowley Four (my late fathers)

[Ellis]

It's hard to believe that it's over 30 years since they introduced. The one in your photo is a 1.0 or 1.3 "L" spec. The more basic "City" spec was not offered until later.
Between 1981 and 1990 my mother had the following :
1.0 HLE YJC 276W

1.3 HLS CEJ 127Y *
MG 1300 A365 SLG
1.3 L C183 KFF
1.3 Mayfair D145 MFF *
1.3 Mayfair E284 NFF
1.3 Advantage G128 TFF
1.1S H293 MJC

And those marked* were bad ones.
_________________
Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[Ellis]

It's hard to believe that it's over 30 years since they introduced. The one in your photo is a 1.0 or 1.3 "L" spec. The more basic "City" spec was not offered until later.
Between 1981 and 1990 my mother had the following, all new :
1.0 HLE YJC 276W

1.3 HLS CEJ 127Y *
MG 1300 A365 SLG
1.3 L C183 KFF
1.3 Mayfair D145 MFF *
1.3 Mayfair E284 NFF
1.3 Advantage G128 TFF
1.1S H293 MJC

And those marked* were bad ones.

And now back to modified Triumph Stags, please.
_________________
Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[Ellis]

[3xpendable]

I had a W reg Metro City Richard, so i wonder how early mine was?



It was given to me by a friends dad after an MOT fail and it was my very first 'my' car (when i was 12) and used it on the farm for years, often running it on 2 stroke fuel! It was the first of 5 metro's I had.

1.0 City NFG 706W
1.0L C135 BKJ
1.0L E457 BNB
1.3L E633 BHJ
1.3 VDP E29 MDE
_________________
2013 Dodge Durango R/T Hemi
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (LHD)
1964 Ford Anglia 105E 1500 GT (Dad)
1980 Porsche 911 SC Targa (Uncle)
1971 MGB GT (V8 project) -SOLD 2016
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW - SOLD 2016

[alan 869]

I´m off to see my rallying friend who is assembling the Stag motor I have (mentioned previously). Will be back tonight and post up it´s history

[ukdave2002]

Hi EWG

Getting back to your original question !

I’m a Stag owner, I wanted one from the day I was walking to school and heard this gorgeous V8 burbling, looked round and saw a beautiful car , took me 30 years to own eventually own one !! Mine is far from original, it started life in 1975 as a green auto, at some point had a ford V6 fitted complete with bonnet bulge, 10 years ago it was restored, and now is a white car with an original Triumph V8 and a manual gearbox. The bonnet bulge is still there, one day I will fit a original bonnet , but its doesn’t look too bad. It has an updated radiator and an additional fan that can be manually switched on, other than that it’s pretty standard, and I quite often use it a tow car .



As I’m sure you know the mechanical differences between the first and last Stag are minimal, from what I have read the Stag development and final testing occurred just as Triumph engineers were shoehorned into the BLMC organisation in 1968, you can help but think some of the development testing may have been compromised? The Stags entire production was during the depressing Leyland years, I’m sure you are right Leyland didn’t try hard enough, whether that was because they thought the cars reputation was tainted beyond redemption in the USA, I don’t know , had it been a decade earlier I’m sure things would have been different.

Dave

[victor 101]

If my memory serves me correctly the major problem of overheating of the Triumph V8 was caused by putting a rad type cap on the engine with DO NOT REMOVE on it, topping up at the expansion tank was no guarantee that there was sufficient coolant in the system.

[baconsdozen]

I remember a friend had one and might still have it now although I've lost touch.
He modified the cooling ststem,memories a bit vague now but he mounted the filler much higher.
He'd had lots of trouble with it but reckoned he could forgive it anything just by putting his foot down and listening to the exhaust.
_________________
Thirty years selling imperial hand tools for old machinery(Now happily retired).

[Ellis]

Found them !

After a search this morning, I found two of the photos of the Stag I owned between December 1979 and May 1989 and I thought you would like to see them ;

[img][/img]

[img]

This was bought by it's one lady owner in August 1976 from Green's Garage in Haverfordwest while she was on holiday and she drove it home two days later.
I bought it privately from her in December 1979 when it had done 29,000 miles. Benefitting from a full service history, tax discs and all the documentation which it had when it was bought new, it was a good buy at the time.
During my ownership I added only 4600 miles in nine and a half years and it had covered a genuine 34,300 miles when I sold it in the heady price crazy May of 1989.
The advert appeared on Good Friday and the first of countless calls started at just before 6.00AM. The first person who arrived to view it that morning bought it there and then with no attempts at making an offer.

Do I regret selling it?
Not really. Two Stags, one after the other were enough and I wanted something different.
For those of you who are interested in the photography, the pictures were taken on Vericolour 11 160ASA Kodak film, a Nikon professional camera by a friend of mine who was a professional photographer who specialised in engineering photography for BNF, the National Grid and others.
The photos were taken on a frosty morning in November 1988 and the first location is Lake(Llyn) Elsi above my village and the second near the Beaver Pool in Betws y Coed.
Sadly, these two (now old) copy prints are all I have and a friend of mine scanned them this afternoon. The originals, including negatives were sent to the Stag Owners Club magazine editor who did not return them.
It goes without saying that the best photographs that were taken that day were not returned.
_________________
Starting Handle Expert

1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

[alan 869]

Back from my friends. The engine is coming along great but there are quite a few bolts missing and a few gaskets. So will set about getting them so he can continue the rebuild

He has raced and rallyed Volvo motors since the 70s. One thing struck him immediately. The water chanels. Large ones at the front of the engine. Smaller ones at the back. Small ones in the cylinder heads and the head gaskets had just small holes over the rear chanels which makes the flow of water very restricted despite the largeer holes at the front. On wonder they had heating problems was his remark. He´s going to enlarge the holes in the head gaskets so that they don´t impead the minimal flow at the rear of the engine. He´s been doing race engines for 30 years or more so he knows what he´s doing. The water pump sitting up on top between the cylinder banks wasn´t such a good idea either. He thought that it hadn´t been developed at all but was basically a good engine.

A friend of his who rallies SAAB 99s came over and had a look and had quite a few comments about the design. An interesting afternoon.

Of course any engine with a decent injection system is going to be miles better than the equivelent with carbs. The Stag block with Sprint heads and injection. Would be nice

Anyway my story:

In 1970 SAAB was already thinking of the next step in the 99 saga. They formed 3 groups what were to try out different ideas. One group tested Fords V6 in the 99. One group secured 5 engines from Triumph - V8s. The last group was led by a guy who thought that it was phesable to modify what they had and incorperate a Turbo (which hadn´t been done on a sallon car before) At the end of these trials, the findings were presented to the management and (as most people will know) the Turbo idea was excepted and ended up as the SAAB Turbo.

The 5 V8s from Triumph had all been fitted in adapted 99s that were taken straight off the line. They had to enlarge the motor bay, 15 cm being added forward of the balkhead. To get the engine in. The manafolds were cut and rewelded at differnent angles, also to allow the engine space. All 5 cars were tested and made roadworthy. 3 were then tested to the extreme. Till they blew in one way or another. 2 were layed up until the outcome of the research was known. When the Turbo idea won, the 2 remaining V8s were taken out of the cars and conserved. Then stored away and eventually forgotten.

In 1993, a guy who worked for SAAB in Södertälje was on a visit to Trollhättan. Whilst waiting in the canteen queque he read the notice board. There was an add from management stating that 2 Triumph V8s were for sale for a small sum. He bought one of them, planning to tim it and race it in something.

The years went and he got involved with racing Mustangs instead. The V8 lay in bits. He had bought a load of new bits for it thinking of the racing idea. When he moved house he decided to sell it. I bought it and cheap

It´s engine number 67. Done about 50 miles in a SAAB 99.

Will try and get some photos of it up on here. He´s bought all new pistons/rings, carbs the lot. I asked him why as the engine had done such a small milage. Reply was that in racing you have to use new stuff and although it had bun hot for maybe 2 hours, the bits were still from 1970 and had been idle in a corner of the factory for so long.

Plan puting it in my 1977 model while I do up the cars original engine (not that it doesn´t run fine but it is due for a major overhaul)

The rocker covers on the SAAB motor are painted yellow and embossed with SAAB. How´s that for a bit of motoring history