Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[MattF]

Ok so hears a fun puzzle to work out, I've had her going three times and she seems to start all good from the crank handle after two or three swings. The last time I had her running was Wednesday a week and a half ago so I thought I better take her for a spin this weekend to keep everything running smoothly.
She won't start the battery is charged, the petrol has been replaced and is getting to the carb ok, the plugs appear all ok, and if I'm lucky she will fire just the once the first time I crank her but that's it!! Have tried four times this weekend and am getting nowhere. Any ideals what could be wrong??
Cheers Matt

[Roger-hatchy]

Condenser??

Such a small item yet can cause a real headache.
Had symilar problems, went through averything, plugs, points, carbs etc. to no avail.
New condensor and no problem so far for two years.

Like a light bulb, can last for years, can last for just hours.

Next hit would be the coil might be breaking down as it gets warm.

[MattF]

thanks would never have thought of that, mainley because i dont know what it is other than somthing in my mod cars aircon what is the condenser in a 1930s car? i cant find it in my owners manual....
(i know, this proberbly sounds like i know nothing about old cars, and its kinda true haha)
Thanks

[alec.elliot]

Hiya

Take off the Distributor cap and you will see a small cylindrical component (approx 1 1/2" long by 3/4" diameter.)

The body should be fixed securely by a screw into the base plate. This forms an earth so make sure that you have a good earth from this point all the way through to the engine by making sure things are clean and secure

One end of the condenser has a screw thread. This should have the electrical supply from the coil going to it and also has a link that goes to the points. Make sure that these areas have good electrical contacts.

Unfortunately you just have to keep chasing this sort of fault through until you find the culprit.

Don't be afraid to ask questions there is always plenty of good advice on this forum.

Good luck

Alec

[Rick]

Points closed up? worth a look while you have the dizzy cap off.

RJ
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[welder]

Matt, next time you try to start the car, and assuming it won't run, take one of the spark plugs out and see if it's wet with petrol. If it is then your problem is electrical/ignition. If not then maybe you have a blockage in the carburettor jet or the inbuilt gauze filter in the fuel pipe connection is clogged up.

If the plugs are wet then, as has been suggested, the most likely culprit is the condenser or dirty/closed contact points. Don't rule out poor connections, anywhere between coil and distributor, or faulty plug caps/connectors. Bear in mind that 6 volt systems don't need much of a voltage drop anywhere to render the spark weak.

I wish you luck and wish you lived nearer as I'd love to have a go at sorting this! Let us know how you get on.

Ian

[Roger-hatchy]

On the subject of points.
Has anyone else come accross sets that the contact pips, rivit, have come loose.
I've had two sets do this.

[Roger-hatchy]

Condenser

Might look like this


Or this

[ukdave2002]

Hi Matt

there are 4 items that I carry in my Morris 8 tool kit.

1) a can of Easy Start; the Morris 8 engine likes a rich mixture to start, if it fires up after a blast of Easy Start, then the choke control is probably not, enriching the mixture enough.

2) a cheap voltmeter; with the points closed are you getting to within 1/2 a volt the same voltage as the battery, if not the LT wiring probably needs attention.

3) a capacitor (condenser) with fly leads and crocodile clips attached, clip it to the switch contact on the coil and earth; when condensers fail they normally fail open circuit, this will quickly replace the condenser without any dismantling.

4) a neon HT lamp; these simply clip between the plug and HT lead and will flash as the plug fires, so you will have confidence that the HT is basically working.

All of those tests will take less than 5 mins in total and fix or identify a high proportion of , no start of poor running.

Cheers

Dave

[MattF]

Hey guys thanks for all the help, have changed the condenser and points and when opening and closing the points with a screwdriver they spark so its good to there now but still not running. while replacing the points i noticed the disie cap contacts are a bit pitted so thats the next thing to replace i think. still dont see why that would have stoped her going so quickly though so I'll try convince my fiancé to try tow start me in the morning, it may simply be that she needs a good fast turn over to get her runing after being left sitting for nealy two weeks?
On a difrent note anyone got any addvice for getting my starter working? it runs but wont engage. I think it may just be seized but i cant seem to get it out to fix it past the sterring box and the block? surly i dont have to take the sterring box out just to service my starter do i??
And yes incase you hadnt worked out, yes im trying start her just by crank handle.

[MattF]

oh and thanks Dave for all your tips

[alec.elliot]

Hiya

You don't need to remove the steering column but you would be wise to take off the elbow between the engine block and lower radiator hose.

My starter is held on with three bolts but later models had a two bolt flange I think.

If its turning but not engaging it could be anything from gunged up because its been too wet through to seized up because its been to dry or even springs have broken. (Mine currently has the large spring broken but still all on the shaft and no small spring and it works fine......at the moment!)

Good luck

Alec

[MattF]

Hi Alec i had thought it was probably just dry seized or sumthing like that. You must be right about taking off the radiator hose elbow, I'd forgotten that was the other thing in the way. The resign why I dont want to take it off is i replaced the coolant just the day before my last run, should have thought it through and taken the starter out then.
Cheers Matt

[MattF]

a week later than i had said i got the fianci to give me a tow, was raining last weekend :'(
She goes now, tow not even half way down the street and running all good
So having replaced the condenser and points i couldnt get her running but wiyh towstart shes all good, what would cause this? i did note that the points on the dizy cap are realy pitted so plan to reblace that and roter but still dont really know why she will start ok every couple f days but leave her longer than a week and i have to tow start Any idears??

[ukdave2002]

Hi Matt

The reason the tow start worked is because the engine was turned over faster than by hand cranking, and its all to do with points and release of energy in the coil....

When the points open the magnetic field of energy that's been created in the coil collapses, the energy has to go somewhere and if all is working well it gets dissipated in the secondary winding and fires the plug.

The quicker and cleaner the collapse the greater the instant release of energy; a quick release of energy is like a tyre blow out; a big sudden release of energy, where as a slow puncture releases the energy slowly.

The slower the points open increases the time that they arc slightly, and the collapse in the coil is slower, meaning you lose the "punch" in the secondary, so the spark is compromised.

Add on electronic ignition systems, use a transistor to open and close the current to the coil (even when the points are retained) the transistor is either off or on, providing a much cleaner switch than points do, thus improving the collapse in the coil in all conditions, and hence a better spark.

Pitted points will present 2 problems:

1) The current flowing into the coil will be reduced when the coil is charging; so there is less energy available for a spark.

2) As the points open the break won't be clean; the collapse in the coil will be slow, and so the punch of the secondary is compromised.

Hope this helps

Dave