Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[P3steve]

Just what you need at the start of a season, Took the Rover out for a pre seasion run today as Ive been off all this week and have been local so have been using it all week as my daily just to make sure every thing was all right. Parked it on my high street and when I came back to it about an hour later it started but with a clatter and a misfire, stopped straight away and got my daughter to tow me the mile home with her 4x4. when I got home I pulled the plugs and disconected the fuel pump - it turned free enough on the starting handle with no tight spots but a slight knock/clatter was heard when it was spun on the button. I need to borrow a compression tester (mine is broken) as I think/hope it might just have "dropped" a valve or lost the head off one (with the rocker cover off all the stems for the inlet are there) - will know better when Ive done the test, I dont think its the bottom end and with a long thin screw driver down each bore in turn and turning it over on the handle all the pistons seem to rise and fall uniformly so I dont think its a con rod. will keep you all informed on the progress. pitty its always been such a sweet engine.
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[FrazzleTC]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune! My 2000 has developed a few big problems after weeks of trouble-free motoring with no warning, as has happened with your engine. I hope it's relatively straightforward to get the car back onto the road!

[JC T ONE]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

How is the cam driven ? chain or gear wheels ?

sometimes it can jump a cog or 2, when you turn a old worn engine off.

Even seen one with a few cogs missing.

Hope you get it sorted.
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[P3steve]

[Phil - Nottingham]

I hope its not a valve - this is what happened to my OHV P2 in April 2010. The no 2 exhaust valve lost its head which punched its way through the piston.

Fortunately it did not score the bore or damage the head or crank but it did cost a lot to put it right. The valves were NOS which though 20 years old had only done only 10000 miles. Its not unknown for the Rover IOE 6 to lose its exhaust valve heads either - inlets are not so prone even though bigger



The recon head - now unleaded too so might as well not bothered with additive for the last 10 years


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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[P3steve]

Well I think I’ve had a lucky escape. Took the head off fearing the worst especially after seeing Phil’s photos, straight away I could see it was No. 5 piston as there were a couple of bits of chewed up metal laying there and a few marks on the piston crown but all the valves were intact. At first I couldn’t figure out where the metal bit had come from but then having a good look around the inlet manifold it soon became clear. Inside what the parts and work shop manual call the inlet manifold centre pot which is the main body under the carburettor is a dividing plate which sits on two small Dowels (part No.210662) these oscillate in two slots allowing the dividing plate a few mm of movement from side to side. One of the dowels had become dislodged and the slot it moved in had been gauged out so it could come free and travel down the manifold into one of the pistons. Although the bit of metal were a bit chewed up you could see from there size and shape that this is what it used to be thankfully because it was so small it had only marked the piston top not punched through and the engine its self seem in very good shape with no noticeable wear on the bores and turning over very smoothly, although the valves seem ok as I’ve got a spare set of exhaust valves I’m going to decoke it any way and replace them. Next question is how to fix the problem making a new dowel wont be enough as the slot that it sits in has opened up and it would just break free like the old one so possible solutions 1) a replacement manifold – any got one? Or 2) drill out and tap the bottom of the manifold and make screw in dowels but this would stop the plate from moving as much (what effect would this have do you think. the original idea was to allow for air press equalization I guess) so working to the idea that the car is only driven gently would this make much difference to fuel and performance after all the plate is quite a “loose” fit with a gap under it so there must be a certain amount of air/fuel that can get by - what do you think? I would really value your thoughts on this. The main thing is the engine its self seems in fine shape. Steve ps although it means dropping the carb off it might be worth any P3 owners out there having a look as caught in time might save an engine strip!
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[peter scott]

Hi Steve,

I assume there isn't too much dismantling to access the plate so why not try running without it and only if you're not happy with the car's performance then consider how to repair it.

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Phil - Nottingham]

Pleased to hear not too much damaged caused - such a small thing too!

The P4/P5 set up with SU carbs is much simpler and safer - I know P3 carbs can be very difficult and I would try Peter's suggestion first to see what difference it does make
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[P3steve]

Thanks for the advice, its not to hard to access once the carb is off - the carb is held by five nuts with the back one accessed with a suitable modified spanner bent at an angle to avoid the rocker cover but once that’s out the way there is a flat plate held down by four counter sunk screws and four bolts two of which hold the dip stick bracket once that’s out the way you can see this “flap that hinges on two lugs at the top with the two dowels in slots at the bottom of the flap which can move left to right by a few mm, its not a tight or airtight fit so I cant see why it was made to move but I wonder if maybe it can be fitted ridged as there seems to be plant of air gap around it as you say it might be worth trying it with out it but I’m more inclined to try and fit it in ridged with maybe a couple of air holes drilled in it.
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[P3steve]

I’m beginning to wonder if the “flap” was added as a late modification for production cars with out having to redesign the whole manifold after they found that having the manifold open under the carb was causing a swirling turbulence of the air fuel mixture a bit like having both car windows open on either side of the car at the same time – one side give you a nice air flow but opening both can cause quite a buffeting of air around your head so I wonder knowing the P3 was a “stop gap” car it wasn’t worth redesigning a new manifold at such a late stage of development so a quick “bodge” was used to get round the problem. I might have a go at fixing mine first where as the original dowels sat in holes in the base of the manifold and the dividing flap sits in slots in these dowels I was thinking of drilling and tapping two holes where the dowels sit and screwing some new longer dowels into these threaded holes the flap cant move and the dowels can never break free (Two short pieces of threaded rod with slots in one end would be all that was needed) I'le give it a try if it doesn’t work I might need to get a replacment manifolds
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[P3steve]

Hi all i've only just had a chance to look at the Rover as I've been workinh away then my wife broke her leg so have been a bit busy but as I was cleaning up the manifold where the dowels sat my screw driver went right through into the water way below meaning the manifold is only good for scrap the metal being worn so waffer thin that it had almost worn right through so haqs any one got a P3 inlet manifold? let me know please. Regards Steve
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[P3steve]

Good news chaps, I spent this afternoon putting the last bits together on the Rover and took it for a test drive and everything seems fine, just a littlt bit of fetling and fine tuning and it shoud be all done. A slight misfire was traced to a broken plug lead cap in which the wire had pulled apart inside (prob when I pulled the lead off at the start of the job) managed to efect a quick repair but will nip down my local parts shop and get a new one/set tomorrow but at the momment all's well. Many thanks to Stewart a fellow P3 owner for his spare manifold which was in great condition and for all your help and support. Just need to get a new fan belt as i noticed the one which was a new old stock one that I fitted only three years ago is in poor shape - worse than the original one that it replaced so that has gone back on as a temp fix so all in all a big job well a heavy one those cast iron heads are a big old lump to lift off thankfully not an expencive one as I already had the Gasket set and a new set of valves it was just the time and as I work away from home most weeks that was the main problem as to why it's taken so long still it should be good for a long time now and I know that the top end is in really good condition. Regards Steve
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[P3steve]

Not been around for a while as I've not been well for about about 9 months which has included a few lengthy stays in hospital but when I do manage to escape I try to get the Rover out as much as I can and just want to report that she's still running fine after her engine problems last year. Steve
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

[Phil - Nottingham]

Great - glad to hear you are back in circulation again
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Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[P3steve]

Not fully yet Phil but thanks any way, still in hospital at the moment for another op actually writing this on the lap top from my bed so its a bit on going at the moment, how able I will be to work on the car (or even drive long turm) is unknown right now. If I do it might have to be an automatic, the left legs not up to much at the moment plus theres now a few bits missing I can manage short trips as long as theres very little clutch work if there is then I struggle but I wont rule any thing out untill everythings healed up all I can say is thank god for the free wheel. Regards Steve
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If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off