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Caroline
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: WWII Morris Commercial engine? Help identifying |
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Hiya,
I'm an archaeologist currently working on a bunch of WWII military equipment dumped in Darwin Harbour, Australia and I was wondering if anyone may be able to help me identify this engine block?
It's a six cylinder inline petrol [I think?] with gear box and hand brake lever still attached. It's in pretty bad shape after being in the water for so many years, but visible markings include "CHROMIDIUM" "85912125" [?] and "12E' on the engine housing, "RJHUNT" "1027802" and "2" on the gear box, "918695" above the fuel pump and "27" between fuel pump and timing cover.
Based on the RJHUNT and CHROMIDIUM stamps, I'm thinking it might be a Morris Commercial? But I am by no means sure. I was wondering if anyone may be able to help out? Or tell me if I'm on completely the wrong track!
Thanks heaps,
Caroline.
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7211
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Caroline,
I have sectioned drawings of the Morris Commercial NVS/FVS 1950-53
and the gearbox/brake lever does look very similar. The engine has the starter and distributor drive in similar positions and the ports on the other side, although my drawing shows all the ports with square cross section and differently disposed. Perhaps they modified the head design. My drawing also has the oil filler further forward than in your photos but that too might be a later mod.
Peter
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Caroline
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| peter scott wrote: | Hi Caroline,
I have sectioned drawings of the Morris Commercial NVS/FVS 1950-53
and the gearbox/brake lever does look very similar. The engine has the starter and distributor drive in similar positions and the ports on the other side, although my drawing shows all the ports with square cross section and differently disposed. Perhaps they modified the head design. My drawing also has the oil filler further forward than in your photos but that too might be a later mod.
Peter |
Hi Peter,
Thank you so much for your reply. Based on your description it sounds like I might just be on the right track! Based on the context and other artefacts we've been finding, I'm thinking that this engine most likely dates to the 1930s so perhaps the differences are, as you say, due to later modifications.
Thanks again  |
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Mog
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Take care with all the un- exploded bombs in Darwin harbor , and the crocs. !  |
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RUSTON
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 144
Location: Matlock.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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If it is a Morris engine (which I doubt as it looks more like a GM type bellhousing/gearbox) it will be post war.
Pete.
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Measure twice...cut once! |
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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22778
Location: UK
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RUSTON
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 144
Location: Matlock.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick wrote: | For some reason I thought Bedford when I saw it, not based on any particular knowledge, more a hunch 
RJ |
Yes Rick, I worked on most post war Morris Commercials. They didn't have an OHV engine until around 1950. That engine seems to have a tin tappet side cover like GM products and the bell housing is pure GM/Bedford where you remove the clutch through the bottom. Maybe from a Chevrolet truck, though I could well be wrong of course, it has been known......... many times:?
Pete.
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Caroline
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Mog wrote: | | Take care with all the un- exploded bombs in Darwin harbor , and the crocs. ! |
Ha ha! Thank you
We actually have had some issues with both! It's not the nicest place to be diving in! |
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Caroline
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Rick wrote: | For some reason I thought Bedford when I saw it, not based on any particular knowledge, more a hunch
RJ |
I like your hunch! I'm doing a bit of research now into Bedford engines after you said that and it's looking a lot more promising
Thank you |
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Caroline
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| RUSTON wrote: | | Rick wrote: | For some reason I thought Bedford when I saw it, not based on any particular knowledge, more a hunch
RJ |
Yes Rick, I worked on most post war Morris Commercials. They didn't have an OHV engine until around 1950. That engine seems to have a tin tappet side cover like GM products and the bell housing is pure GM/Bedford where you remove the clutch through the bottom. Maybe from a Chevrolet truck, though I could well be wrong of course, it has been known......... many times:?
Pete. |
Ok so I can pretty much rule out Morris, that's good to know, thank you It was an amateur guess on my behalf due largely to the RJHunt logo. I still don't know what that is, but I've also ever seen it mentioned in connection with Morris engines. From what I've learned recently, Bedford and Chevy engines were often very similar - is that right?
Thanks again |
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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22778
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| RUSTON wrote: | | Rick wrote: | For some reason I thought Bedford when I saw it, not based on any particular knowledge, more a hunch
RJ |
Yes Rick, I worked on most post war Morris Commercials. They didn't have an OHV engine until around 1950. That engine seems to have a tin tappet side cover like GM products and the bell housing is pure GM/Bedford where you remove the clutch through the bottom. Maybe from a Chevrolet truck, though I could well be wrong of course, it has been known......... many times:?
Pete. |
I was looking at the possible side cover too, it's similar to that on my Bedford ute (although its engine is smaller overall).
RJ
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V8 Nutter
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 601
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Bedford and Chevy engines were so similar, my first American car was a '49 Chevy fitted with a 214 cubic inch Bedford engine. The engines were so similar the Chevy carb manifold and distributor bolted straight onto the Bedford block.
I believe the Australian army used a great many C.M.P. Chevy trucks.
Two big differences between Chevy and Bedford are Bedfords used shell bearings on the big ends Chevy's were white metal. Chevy's used cast iron pistons and most Bedfords used aluminium ones |
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Caroline
Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi V8 Nutter, thanks so much for your reply.
I might see if we can pull apart one of the engines to have a better look at it [if it survives].
I've also been looking into CMP trucks more now after reading your comment and I'm starting to think we may also have some Ford built CMPs. Nice one!
Thanks again for all your help |
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roverdriver
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 1210
Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Caroline, the Chevrolet CMP had the 6 cylinder engine whereas the Fords had the Ford flat-head (side valve) V8.
I would expect that despite the length of time of immersion, some of the heavier steel and mechanical parts would survive enough to be identified. Things such as the two diffs and axles, transfer case and gearbox, chassis frame, springs etc., and even the front bumper bar.
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V8 Nutter
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 601
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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C.M.P. trucks were built to British government spec which meant Ford and Chevy bodies were virtually the same, although they did vary over the years. I think the early ones had a reverse sloping windshield, the later ones had a more conventional windshield and a roomier cab. I can't confirm that, someone borrowed my book on military vehicles and it never came back.
Apart from the engines the axles were different between a Ford and a Chevy, Chevys had a banjo type axle. |
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