Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[DanH]

Often when hearing stories about people's experiences with vintage/classic cars, one thing that seems to come up is the the trouble of getting up a particularity steep hill.

I have heard several stories that involve drivers attempting to reverse up hills since first or second was not low enough. Usually the stories involve a smaller English car such as a Austin/Morris/Ford.

I wonder how many of these cases were down to poor driving style or the engine not being in the top state of tune/poorly maintained rather than the car itself not being up to the job?

These days you still hear of a slow grind in second or sometimes first when challenged by a steep hill in a 30's or 40's car. But I've never heard anyone in more recent times saying that they couldn't make it up a hill at all or resorting to reverse gear....

[goneps]

Dan,

You won't have any trouble in a decent Series E, if that's what's prompted your post. Neither do the earlier three-speed Eights have any trouble, even in Auckland's very hilly environment. The only hill that's defeated my Series 1 Tourer is Baldwin Street in Dunedin, reputedly the world's steepest (1 in 2.86 near the top, according to Wikipedia, and that's about as far as we got when we tried). I do believe that, with the Series E four-speed 'box now fitted to the Tourer, I could have made it, since first is somewhat lower than on the three-speed (and the same ratio as reverse).

There's a handful of hills in the Auckland region that will reduce a standard three-speed Morris Eight to first, but since I fitted the four-speed 'box a few years ago none has required first, and that includes the precipitous West Road near Clevedon. During a MR run I set a couple of years ago, on country roads to the west of Auckland, one short hill did reduce one Eight saloon to reversing up, but everyone else (bar a dreadfully slow pre-war Bedford lorry) had no difficulty.

You're quite right in suspecting that poor driving style and inability to "read the road" contribute to some drivers' difficulties.

Richard

[DanH]

No that hasn't prompted my post as such. Its just something that seems to come up regularly in when people are recounting their experiences of cars like Ford Prefects, or Morris 8's. I remember my father attempting to put me off buying a Ford Prefect when I was a teenager buy saying how gutless they were and that I would be "reversing up hills".

Having driven three Morris 8's now I've no doubt that they are capable little cars, when properly looked after and driven with a bit more thought and concentration than a modern car.

[ka]

I think one of the major changes besides engine power to get up hills, is the density of traffic, and also the number of gears available. Our Morgan has a three speed box, therefore I always have the trade-off of overall gearing/reasonable cruising speed/gearing of first gear for hill starts. The Morgan, I accept is quite different in the power train, having a chain final drive to the back wheel, and the option of sprocket sizes for the gearbox end (engine-clutch-prop/torque tube-gearbox at the back), but I try to run a compromise set-up for all occasions, which stuffs me on most hill starts if there is a decent gradient. Reference to traffic density, is the ability to get a good 'run-up', as we all know modern car drivers have little understanding of the power and braking ability of Historics.
On a similar note, I competed in the Pioneer run a few years ago,(Epsom Race Course to Brighton, similar to London to Brighton car run) on a 1911 machine, no clutch, no gears, little brakes. Trying to maintain momentum is the key tool, with forward vision an absolute necessity,entering roundabouts has to be gauged carefully, as if you come to a stop, running to start the engine, then re-mounting the machine entering the roundabout with modern car speeds is at the least stimulating. I was making reasonable progress, sometimes hitting a heady 20mph, but entering a village, just short of Brighton, gradual up-hill along the main street on a weekend morning, pedestrian crossing, and the courteous car driver in front decided to allow persons to cross on a green light for us, so the rest of the hill was a walk and push until the top, where a run and jump started the engine, then off we go. But back to the question, if I can get a run-up no problem, although if they are long and steep, I have to stop half way up to allow the Morgan to cool down, then have a go at the rest, stopping at the top to allow a cool down. If the down bit is the same grade, I have been known to stop just before the brakes fade into a memory, to allow them to cool to undertake the next part of the hill. The pleasures of an old car!
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KA

Better three than four.

[lowdrag]

It still happens apparently. Not sure what consumer programme I was watching but people who had bought one particular model of the new Fiat 500 could not get up hills either. I do remember going uphill backwards in an Austin 7 once, but we were rather overloaded!

[peter scott]

It almost happened to me recently with a hire car in Spain. Some of the back streets in the hill villages are extremely steep and I went down one dead end and turned at the bottom. On initial attempt to get back up the hill this front wheel drive car just ended up polishing the roadway and I did think I might need to turn about and go back up in reverse to get the weight over the driving wheels. As it happens there was a few yards of more level road before the steep assent and I managed to get a little bit of a run at it and didn't need to reverse up but it was almost necessary.

Peter
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https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Bitumen Boy]

I remember when I used to live in Gloucestershire there were some hills on the back lanes near Dursley that my various Minis would need first gear to climb, though that was often a combination of gradient + tight bend + limited visibility on a single track road. Only once did I have a failure to proceed up one of these hills, though that was down to a lack of traction due to polished tarmac and wet autumn leaves on the road - had to turn round and go a longer way round up an easier climb.

At one point though I had an '89 Fiesta - put me off F*rds for life - that just didn't like hills at all, and would "lose interest" and stop halfway up. Sometimes it would restart after a bit of a rest, other times not. Never did find out what was wrong with it and sold it on quite quickly. Heard of others with the same problem too, of course it could be down to the usual neglect of old bangers but even so I wouldn't want another one!

Never had any problems with the Herald climbing hills, even when I first had it and it was badly out of tune. Yes it climbs slowly on the steeper hills, but always gets to top eventually and isn't inclined to boil along the way either. Also used to enjoy our Acclaims on hills, very good climbers and could pass a lot of moderns on the A465, only problem was an inclination to boil in hot weather as the rads are a mite small.

[lowdrag]

I almost forgot the 1980s. We lived on a steep cul de sac and I was the only one who managed to get up the hill to our home. I had an SRi Cavalier, FWD of course, and the others had Grannys, Mercs and Beemers.. Nothing like a bit of snow to sort out traction from propulsion!

[Dipster]

Not exactly a Classic (will it ever be?!) but I was defeated repeatedly by hills when I was driving a Fiat Doblo. I was in the small touristic town of Ouro Preto, Brazil. It seems all the roads there are going up or down. I had 3 passengers which was enough to defeat the front wheel drive layout of the Doblo. Wheel spin galore, tyre smoke if you wished (I admit it was a rental!) but not much forward motion.

There is a lot to be said for 4 wheel drive.......

[mikeC]

[Bitumen Boy]

[Ray White]

[badhuis]

I remember that during a holiday in our fully loaded Herald had a problem getting up a steep road somewhere in Torquay I think. I needed first gear to get up so the car made a lot of whining noise going (straight cut gear in first I think?).

Also on that holiday the fully laden car had problem on long hills. Needed to get back to second gear - lorries were overtaking us...
That said I usually never thought the Herald was lacking power. Maybe it had to do with the low seating position and the lovely noise the engine/exhaust made. Great car, Herald 1200.
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a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment

[DanH]

[mikeC]