Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if the motor would benefit from doing an oil change with some turbo diesel oil and see if the cleans it up a bit?
Kevin |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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kevin2306 wrote: | I wonder if the motor would benefit from doing an oil change with some turbo diesel oil and see if the cleans it up a bit?
Kevin |
It might come to it, I went the long way to the local pub meet this evening to get some heat around things. On starting it from cold(ish), it spluttered for about 20 seconds then came on song fine, like flicking a switch. At the pub I started it a couple of times no problem. On leaving, it spluttered for approx 5 seconds then cleared up, so I took it for another drive (maybe 12 miles or so) before returning home. I suspect there must be some sticky gloop still in one or two valve guides, the plan is to give it some regular use over the next few days and see if it improves matters.
Apart from the start-up wobbles, it drives really well.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Went to start it this morning, same story.
With the rocker cover off, valves 2 and 3 were clearly stuck open. Eventually I persuaded it to start on two cylinders. This encouraged valve 3 (cylinder 2) to join the party, and with a little encouragement, valve 2 (cyl 1) freed up and the engine ran sweetly.
With it running I doused both valves and springs with two stroke oil. Neither valve appeared to be bent or corroded when I had them out the other day.
Perhaps there's still a bit of gloop in both valves guides still? Perhaps the springs are a little weak? or maybe a combination of the two .....
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4117 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps a good long run would sort things out?
Dave |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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MVPeters
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Northern MA, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rick
I just re-read the previous page!
You've had all the valves out, so they can't be gummy!
The rocker shaft oil feed is easy enough to check without dismantling - it should splash oil all over the nice clean engine. I have to say I've never seen a push-rod bent as much as that - surely the rocker shaft must have seized at some point & presumably replaced.
Which only leaves the cam followers - I'd be tempted to give them all a direct soaking with PlusGas or acetone or diesel or auto trans fluid & leave them overnight to dissolve the gum.
The fuel sender will probably free off in time unless there's an electrical issue.
Then fresh petrol & a few long runs & she'll be running like - a Morris Minor.
Nice car. _________________ Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S' |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I gave it an oil change last night, the cheapo 20/50 had done about 50-55 miles so I dropped it out and replaced it with a "classic" 20/50. Considering it had seen little use, the oil that came out didn't seem to have much body to it at all.
If valves 2 and 3 continue to stick (the followers are moving fine, it's the valves that are sticking open - see photo, valves stuck down and the rockers raised), I'll pull the head again and have another look.
There seems to be plenty of oil circulating in the vicinity of the rockers, and the top in general. I do wonder whether the springs are a little tired.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
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bjacko
Joined: 28 Oct 2013 Posts: 364 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:56 am Post subject: Morris Minor |
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Push rods often get bent when tappets are adjusted incorrectly or when a head has been machined and the tappets not adjusted accordingly. Many years ago I had a Corolla which had a head problem on a replacement engine and I was supplied a replacement head with all the valve gear and after installing I found some the push rods bent. I found the head was thinner than the original and just tightening the head down bent some push rods.. They gave me another engine as the fix!! |
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Morris Minor |
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bjacko wrote: | Push rods often get bent when tappets are adjusted incorrectly or when a head has been machined and the tappets not adjusted accordingly. Many years ago I had a Corolla which had a head problem on a replacement engine and I was supplied a replacement head with all the valve gear and after installing I found some the push rods bent. I found the head was thinner than the original and just tightening the head down bent some push rods.. They gave me another engine as the fix!! |
We can assume that Rick torqued down the head and fixed on the rocker shaft afterwards to avoid this problem. And so long as there was some tappet clearance when adjusted, a bent pushrod could only occur if the valve had some serious seizure in the guide or had impacted on a piston because of an over-machined head or block surface or use of an incorrect combination of piston and/or con-rod.
I suspect that the valve-guides may have been replaced and that there is insufficient clearance on them so thet the valves are being gripped as the guide inner diameter shrinks when hot as the valve stem expands slightly. Maybe the light use of the correct reamer would help? |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Morris Minor |
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colwyn500 wrote: | bjacko wrote: | Push rods often get bent when tappets are adjusted incorrectly or when a head has been machined and the tappets not adjusted accordingly. Many years ago I had a Corolla which had a head problem on a replacement engine and I was supplied a replacement head with all the valve gear and after installing I found some the push rods bent. I found the head was thinner than the original and just tightening the head down bent some push rods.. They gave me another engine as the fix!! |
We can assume that Rick torqued down the head and fixed on the rocker shaft afterwards to avoid this problem. And so long as there was some tappet clearance when adjusted, a bent pushrod could only occur if the valve had some serious seizure in the guide or had impacted on a piston because of an over-machined head or block surface or use of an incorrect combination of piston and/or con-rod.
I suspect that the valve-guides may have been replaced and that there is insufficient clearance on them so thet the valves are being gripped as the guide inner diameter shrinks when hot as the valve stem expands slightly. Maybe the light use of the correct reamer would help? |
Today it started better from cold on two occasions, with just a momentary stutter second time of trying, this afternoon. Driving it around it performed fine as before. I'll try again tomorrow ...!
RJ
PS the rocker assembly is held down in part by a number of head nuts, so they had to be torqued at the same time. However I made sure all the adjusters were well backed off, so as to save the rods from any possible problems with the rockers.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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norustplease
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 782 Location: Lancashire
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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A new set of valve springs might help. _________________ 1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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norustplease wrote: | A new set of valve springs might help. |
I found a NOS set of springs in my A40 spares haul yesterday, so if necessary I'll swap them over.
Lately the cold starts have been much better, and things appear to be settling down as I'd hoped they would.
The starter packed up after a couple of wobbles, so I replaced that with a used one "from stock" (ie one of several that came as spares with the A55 Cambridge I used to run, that I hung on to just in case). The original motor wouldn't play ball despite checking the brushes etc, so simplest was to swap it for a good spare.
I also swapped the exhaust/inlet manifold. The joint to the head wasn't 100% due to some corrosion on the mating surface near the bulkhead. £5 sourced another from t'internet, so that's now in place with another new gasket. It sounds a lot smoother now, plus the replacement doesn't have the vacuum take-off on it, which is no longer required after disabling the servo.
While looking through various spare carbs I found a 1.5" SU on a suitable manifold, so one day I might fit that for a little extra "pep", not that it needs it really.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22458 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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As there was a test day taking place at Oulton Park today, we headed over there to spectate, giving the Moggy another run out in the process.
Amazingly, as we were sat waiting to turn right into the lane that heads to the circuit from the main road, another split-screen Minor (a grey Series II) came the other way, so waves were exchanged
Two photos of the MM with the famous Lodge (of Lodge Corner fame) in the background.
While parked up, one circuit employee pulled up in his van to reminisce about a Minor he restored in the 1970s, while another spectator told us of how he used to drive Minor vans for BT years ago.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
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