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Hot Rods and Customs
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1386
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:39 pm    Post subject: Hot Rods and Customs Reply with quote

In my early twenties I visited a number of Hot Road and Custom car shows and the experience was an interesting one. One at Bellevue, Manchester in 1978 was particularly well organised with Rock music played at non deafening levels.
I never owned a Custom Car or a Hot Rod but one local lad did, a Mg Midget with a hiked rear end, huge Wolfrace wheels, a one piece bonnet with quality graphics and images pf coffins and ghouls on a pearlescent black background. At a show it must have looked stunning but driven every day it was a freakish attention getter.

I was looking at some old DVD's the other night largely of Boyd Coddington's American Hot Rod and while I enjoyed the programmes and the skills on show, I used to be, still am, appalled at the destruction of, on occasions, beautiful classic car to create these "customs and 'rods".

A beautiful Ford Model T turned from this :

[img]

to this :

[/img]

Even Edd China and Mike Brewer got involved with this :

[img]

And as an example of classic vandalism, would you turn one of these :

[/img]

into this :

[img]

I have liberal views on classic car modification to improve driving and make a classic C21st useable but the above is vandalism.

Do you agree?[/img]
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Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son runs a restoration business and deals with all sorts of the rarest and most expensive cars, but he and a group of chums belong to the VHRA and they restore or build vintage hot rods. Some are extremely clever craftsmen and do a superb job. They're quite artistic, but a lot of the stuff that is created is grim and a good car has died to produce it.





[/img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3927/15485065771_4ebfd270a0_z_d.jpg[img]



It's a huge and growing movement, which is good because the VSCC are a bit sniffy about them, but not the Bugatti owners club that have an all American weekend at Prescott that's very popular. Also I believe they do another at Shelsley Walsh near Worcester, so you should go and have a look and see what you think.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7110
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes wonder if people start contentious topics just to raise the temperature. Nothing makes my blood boil more than hot rods. I don't want to see our hobby hijacked by custom car enthusiasts as it is in the States. There, you can't go to a local car show without rods of one sort or another being the dominant entries. In fact, the assumption there is that if an old car comes to light, it will be rodded and it doesn't need to be a common model or a wreck - many thousands of good restorable cars, and some rare examples too, are still being trashed.

I say trashed because in my opinion, it doesn't matter how skilled the work may be because the practise is unsustainable vandalism and ignorance of historical worth on a vast scale. To say I hate the Hot Rod scene is an understatement but anyone who knows me knows that when it comes to the destruction of the few remaining survivors of our motoring heritage, I take no prisoners.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 4174
Location: The Somerset Levels

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree with rodding at all. To take a car that's restorable and rod it doesn't make much sense to me. I know hot rods have a large following but to be honest I steer clear of them.
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scott_budds



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 175
Location: Norwich

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its a cultural thing. America has a very long history of Hot Rods. Im not particularly interested in Rods but all things can be well done or badly done. I think if someone enjoys something which they own who is to say that its not right. Dont let it eat you up as there has been and always will be plenty of interesting cars that have been crushed, damaged or written off. If you dont like something turn away as letting it eat you up is not good for your soul. Stick to looking at things that you like. This way we all can be happy.

Buddsy
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7110
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott_budds wrote:
I think its a cultural thing. America has a very long history of Hot Rods. Im not particularly interested in Rods but all things can be well done or badly done. I think if someone enjoys something which they own who is to say that its not right. Dont let it eat you up as there has been and always will be plenty of interesting cars that have been crushed, damaged or written off. If you dont like something turn away as letting it eat you up is not good for your soul. Stick to looking at things that you like. This way we all can be happy.

Buddsy


I agree that it is an American cultural issue and that is essentially my point. We do not need to follow what amounts to popular American culture when it entails the destruction of our motoring heritage. Following this absurd foreign obsession like sheep is alien to the way in which most sensitive British enthusiasts see their old car hobby.

I have strong feelings about this particular subject. Being passionate about one's beliefs does not amount to being "eaten up". In my case I do not believe there is such a thing as a "soul". If there is then show me the evidence for it.

If we all just turned a blind eye to things that we don't like then I don't think the outcome would be happiness; on the contrary. It may be unfashionable but there are still a few people like me who are prepared to stand up and be counted in this politically correct world. I am sorry if it offends anyone but in my opinion, hot rodding an historic vehicle amounts to vandalism and is equivalent to daubing graffiti over the exhibits in a museum or fitting UPVC windows to a Tudor house.

Interestingly, towards the end of his life, Boyd Coddington himself realising that the supply of original vehicles was drying up went over to glass fibre bodies and urged his followers to do the same. Sadly, his message seems to have been ignored.
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Ray on this—I just don't 'get' the hot rod mentality. Why would anyone wish to mutilate a perfectly harmless old car? If you want more power and better brakes, etc., etc., buy a properly-engineered modern for a fraction of the cost that will be a lot better in every respect, not least a great deal safer and more comfortable.

This vulgar American trend is something the old vehicle movement can well do without.

Richard
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1809
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashley wrote:

...It's a huge and growing movement, which is good because the VSCC are a bit sniffy about them...


Which is silly, because the VSCC have been largely responsible for a similar destruction of original Bentleys, Rileys, Alvises and many other desirable cars in the UK - it's just they call the resulting abortions 'specials' instead of hot rods. Same culture, same mentality, just a different name. That's one of the reasons I resigned my VSCC membership forty years ago, and have no interest in re-joining.
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Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeC wrote:
Ashley wrote:

...It's a huge and growing movement, which is good because the VSCC are a bit sniffy about them...


Which is silly, because the VSCC have been largely responsible for a similar destruction of original Bentleys, Rileys, Alvises and many other desirable cars in the UK - it's just they call the resulting abortions 'specials' instead of hot rods. Same culture, same mentality, just a different name. That's one of the reasons I resigned my VSCC membership forty years ago, and have no interest in re-joining.


I agree Mike, particularly Riley's and Austin Sevens have all been made into sports or racing cars. However the difference in America is that modern hotrods fetch (old bodies on new mechanicals and customised) many times the price of the cars they were made from.

The Britsh Club is newish and devoted to celebrating Vintage Hotrods, which comprise mostly of early Fords fitted with Flathead V8s and modified to go much faster than the originals. I believe the cut off point is around 1950.

They have an annual speed event at Pendine Sands, meetings at Prescott near Cheltenham and Shelsley near Worcester Amongst quite a few others.

In Sweden there is another substantial early American car club and they too customise them by lowering the roof line and the rear and they tow Teardrop caravans to their events. They're meeting up with the British lot annually too.

It's all a very active scene and a welcome addition to the old car movement in my opinion. As has already been discussed, eighties cars are classics now and interest in older stuff, Ferraris etc excepted, is on the wane.

Having said all that I'd prefer an original Three Window Coupe and put up with it driving like an overpowered Pop.

This Forum might be of interest.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forums/cars-for-sale.7/page-2
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I touched on this subject in an earlier posting I made.

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16565

I have never been able to understand the fascination with the 1/4 mile "race"

To me it is "plenty of $$'s" V "even more $$'"

almost no driving skill required.

Culture and finance created the Hot-Rod. Perhaps rather than let it make British blood boil it is just better not to promote it.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7110
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of you may remember that last year I complained to "The Automobile" magazine because they have started promoting hot rods. Having subscribed to the magazine since it's inception in 1982 ( I have every copy since then) I was saddened that they have chosen to move away from a hitherto serious approach to the preservation of our Motoring heritage. A pity, then, that the sub Editor chose to re-word my email to make me look ignorant. Unfortunately, The Automobile magazine seems to have taken the commercial decision to widen it's appeal. After 32 years they have lost my support. I have not renewed my subscription; I may not be alone.

Our hobby needs protecting from a slew of legislation eminating from the E.U. which is aimed primarily at those vehicles which claim to be "historic" yet lack provenance. What has this to do with hot rods? one might ask.
If we align ourselves with the custom/hot rod tradition then there is a danger that legislators will see no difference between us. In fact, it will appear that unmolested,original cars are simply potential hot rods rather than being of historic value in their own right. Seeing that the desire of many in Brussels is to rid the world of old cars for environmental or safety reasons, rather than just clearing the roads of heavily modified vehicles, we could all be tarred with the same brush and before long our cars will be banned from the roads and seen only in museums or trailered to static shows.

I cannot emphasise how damaging the hot rod following is to our cause; not only to the unrestored, basically original cars that have survived the passage of time but in diluting the intrinsic historical worth of our motoring heritage. We can see what has happened in the U.S. and elsewhere, and for what? Hybrid monstrosities that are designed to go faster than our speed limits allow and yet will seldom find their way into serious racing.

Incidentally, I am in favour of the land speed record breaking at Bonneville salt flats, for example, or historic sports car racing events in this country but in reality this is only a minority interest. The vast majority of customised cars are presented at shows as "modified" old cars when in reality they are re creations and bear little resemblance to what they originally were.
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Keith D



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1165
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the anti hot rod camp!

The hot rods seen over here are generally well engineered and usually very smartly presented. However, I prefer to see the car as designed and built by the manufacturer.

However, Hot Rods don't make me see red! I can live with them although I prefer them not to be in old car displays.

What does anger me is when these things are parked in a show and labelled (for instance) 1923 T Model bucket. The engine is late model V8 Chevrolet, the auto transmission is late model American. The rear end is Jaguar and it is sitting on wide mag wheels and even wider tyres. The body is fibreglass and is based very loosely on a T Model Ford tourer. The chassis is a tubular set up that can handle the powerful engine. There is absolutely nothing of 1923 on the vehicle!

As regards Austin Seven specials. Check out the number of companies that built bodies for Sevens in the UK and sold them to the public as new cars pre-war. Jaguar is the obvious one with their SS Swallow! My Austin Seven is one of a few in Australia that is completely British Austin built!

In Australia between the wars we had almost 100 body builders and to protect that local industry, a severe tariff was placed on complete cars imported. My 1926 Chrysler series 60 has a Richards body (built in South Australia). My close mate has the same car with a Holden body.(Built in Victoria) They have very different bodies although sold as the same car in 1926.

Singling out specials as being hot rods is really opening a bag of worms!

Keith
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7110
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Singling out specials as being hot rods is really opening a bag of worms!

Keith[/quote]


Agree 100%, Keith!
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JP



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Norfolk UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
Some of you may remember that last year I complained to "The Automobile" magazine because they have started promoting hot rods. Having subscribed to the magazine since it's inception in 1982 ( I have every copy since then) I was saddened that they have chosen to move away from a hitherto serious approach to the preservation of our Motoring heritage. A pity, then, that the sub Editor chose to re-word my email to make me look ignorant. Unfortunately, The Automobile magazine seems to have taken the commercial decision to widen it's appeal. After 32 years they have lost my support. I have not renewed my subscription; I may not be alone.

Our hobby needs protecting from a slew of legislation eminating from the E.U. which is aimed primarily at those vehicles which claim to be "historic" yet lack provenance. What has this to do with hot rods? one might ask.
If we align ourselves with the custom/hot rod tradition then there is a danger that legislators will see no difference between us. In fact, it will appear that unmolested,original cars are simply potential hot rods rather than being of historic value in their own right. Seeing that the desire of many in Brussels is to rid the world of old cars for environmental or safety reasons, rather than just clearing the roads of heavily modified vehicles, we could all be tarred with the same brush and before long our cars will be banned from the roads and seen only in museums or trailered to static shows.

I cannot emphasise how damaging the hot rod following is to our cause; not only to the unrestored, basically original cars that have survived the passage of time but in diluting the intrinsic historical worth of our motoring heritage. We can see what has happened in the U.S. and elsewhere, and for what? Hybrid monstrosities that are designed to go faster than our speed limits allow and yet will seldom find their way into serious racing.

Incidentally, I am in favour of the land speed record breaking at Bonneville salt flats, for example, or historic sports car racing events in this country but in reality this is only a minority interest. The vast majority of customised cars are presented at shows as "modified" old cars when in reality they are re creations and bear little resemblance to what they originally were.


I agree. It can only damage the future and integrity of genuine classic cars. In addition it attracts unwelcome attention from the DVLA, EU etc to the whole historic car world.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7214
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess there are quite few different factors at play here.
It is very understandable that someone with a car of low value in poor condition might not want to spend a load of money to restore it and may not have the skills to do it themselves.

There is also the question of desiring something more exciting than a bog standard saloon but not wanting to pay a lot for it.

Clearly people's perception of what is desireable varies greatly as lots of special builders create things that many would have absolutely no desire to have but would possibly have been happy with the original car as a gradual project.

MkVI Bentley specials stand out particularly in my mind.

Perhaps the situation in the US differs from here due to the much greater proportion of boring saloons and that exist in much greater overall numbers.

Peter
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