Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Ellis

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In March 1996 I bought some excellent parts from a retiring Jaguar Mark 2 owner. He had sold his 1963 3.4 litre, a gorgeous Opalescent Maroon with cream leather example to a dealer and was awaiting collection. The owner was relocating to British Columbia to be close to his son and daughter who both lived in Canada.

As I was loading the parts into my pick up he asked me to follow him into his garage. In the loft were four standard Jaguar Mark 2 wheels with near new 6.40-15 Dunlop C41 tyres. He told me to have the tyres checked at a tyre fitter and if they were useable the price would be £25. They had been kept in the dark, dry loft for years after a wire wheel conversion.

My local tyre place did check them thoroughly and declared the tyres in excellent condition and safe. They were fitted onto my own wire wheels the day before my Mark 2 passed it's test in November 1996.
I looked forward to a spirited 4 mile run home, it was wet and windy but the C41s put paid to any attempt to drive beyond 45mph.. Nil grip, tramlining and vague though light steering led to a hair raising journey.
I tried again the following morning and nearly lost the car with accentuated understeer and on occasions I felt I was driving on ice.

I ordered a set of Michelin XVS 185 HR 15 tyres that day.
I admire the bravery and sang froid of Jaguar drivers on C41 cross plies but have no desire to join them.
My C41s were sought by the local owner of a 1962 E Type for show purposes. Good luck to him!

I drove cars and vans in the early 1970s with cross ply tyres with no drama I remember including a Commer Minibus shod with them. The last car on cross plies I drove was a 1980 Vauxhall Chevette.

What do you all fit to your pre 1970 cars and earlier?
Crossplies? And what do you think of them?
Do you find it strange or challenging after your daily with modern tyres?

Last year I was offered a set of nearly new Chinese made 7.50 16 crossply tyres for my 2a. I declined.
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet

Dipster · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject:

Cross plies were OK when you knew no better!

I recall that early transits came with them. The Transit was light years ahead of any other van available at the time and I thought they were great. After some use, when the tyres had worn out, we replaced them with Michelin radials. Instantly we had a fantastic van! The difference between cross ply and radials is enormous and I would avoid cross plies at all costs. But I understand some older suspension geometries cannot get on with radials. I have not had that experience though.

Rick · Site Admin Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22447 Location: UK

I preferred my A40 on crossplies in some respects, notably the lighter steering and seemingly more compliant ride, when compared to radials. The crossplies also looked more in keeping. However there's no denying that the latter hung on better and made driving easier.

I've run a number of cars on crossplies, pre-war through to the likes of my A40 Devons, and the A40 Farina many years ago. I don't mind them, I just drive accordingly, it's part of the package with driving an oldie. However if I were to run a more powerful, or more heavy, car - say a Mk2 - I might change my mind.

RJ
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goneps · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:41 pm Post subject:

In NZ a lot of Morris Eight owners are driving on cheap radials imported from somewhere in Asia, and they claim they're excellent. I wouldn't know, because my Tourer is not an export model and therefore doesn't have the necessary 16" wheels. Thus I'm currently on Avon cross-plies which give a softer ride than the previous Dunlops, but I seem to get around the twisty bits at least as easily as anyone else. Within the constraints of 1930s steering and suspension I doubt there's much difference; my guess is that their principal advantage is that they're half the price of genuine cross-plies.

The M8 looks silly with radials—fat boots on skinny underpinnings, just like Mickey Mouse.

Richard

Keith D · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:36 am Post subject:

I use cross plies on my 1950 Austin A40 for the simple and serious reason that the suspension was not designed for radials. When I owned and used my 3.4 mark 2 Jaguar I also ran cross plies for the same reason. The car performed superbly on those tyres. I used this car as part of my work that involved driving all over the State of Victoria. Believe me, I really used and enjoyed that car! It was designed to run on cross plies and it did so safely. I was surprised to read of Ellis' experience. Something sounds very wrong there.

When GM, Chrysler and Ford decided to fit radials to their cars in Australia in the late seventies, they all spent a great deal of time and money updating their suspensions to suit radial tyres. Why would they do that if radials and cross plies can just be changed over?

Keith

Rick · Site Admin Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22447 Location: UK

I remember reading years back - perhaps in an A40 club magazine - that it wasn't unknown for BMC wheels (and perhaps those of other car makers in the 1950s/1960s) to split between the stud holes in the wheel. One reason put forward was that the increased grip of radials over crossplies, was putting more stresses through the wheel than was originally envisaged while cornering.

Sounds feasible enough to me.

RJ
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peter scott · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh

I was astonished by the improvement in roadholding when I changed from crossplies to Michelin Xs back in the late 1960s and have never looked back.

I would change my SS to radials tomorrow if they were available my size but they're not. Apart from shear grip radials are also nicer because they don't tend to wander on longitudinal road irregularities. I have reduced the wander in my car by changing from 4 ply up to 6 ply tyres but they're still not as good as radials.

Peter
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kevin2306 · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:11 am Post subject:

My Singer still had cross plys when I bought it but they were very perished and beyond use.
I still have the spare in the loft which is in great condition and would suit someone who is displaying their car in a museum.
I run a set of Maxxis currently, bought from Vintage Tyres and they both look and drive well.

Kevin

Riley Blue · Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 1750 Location: Derbyshire

When I bought my Riley 1.5 and drove it home from Coventry to Chesterfield on a wet day it was so wayward on crossplies I decided by Burton on Trent that a change to radials would be my first purchase. They were on two days later.

What concerns me most is the willingness of some classic owners to drive on tyres many years old, decades old in some cases. Sheer folly.
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1963 Riley 1.5
1965 Riley 1.5

Ashley · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 1426 Location: Near Stroud, Glos

I wouldn't put cross plies on a wheelbarrow.

FWIW you can even get radials for a Model A Ford, but they have to be imported from the land of plenty.

Minxy · Joined: 22 Sep 2010 Posts: 272 Location: West Northants

I have cross plies on the Minx and they are fine, whether radials would be better I don't know but as the cross plies do the job they will stay. My Lanchester to has cross plies and will be replaced by same. In my opinion radials just don't look right on cars with rims meant for cross plies. So for me it's cross plies.

goneps · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:01 am Post subject:

In this neck of the woods there's a few pretty quick Austin 7 specials and a very rapid Nippy, and they all run on cross-plies. One of the specials is raced.

As mentioned earlier, with cars of pre-war design the limiting factor is more likely to be the suspension than the tyres.

Richard

Phil - Nottingham · Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 1252 Location: Nottingham

only X plies can be had for our 1938 Rover 16 but this handles perfectly well and is quite nippy. Some tyre squealing if corners are taken too fast so it just a matter of driving style

X plies are deadly on our Mini, P4 and both P5's though and do not last well either.

Got radials on the Land Rovers too as they are softer
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Ashley · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 1426 Location: Near Stroud, Glos

Crossplies are very dangerous IMO because it's barely safe to keep pace with modern traffic if you use them. Radials were available from the early fifties. The Americans (Coker I believe) even make them for Model A Fords now.

Jaguar were racing on radials from 1955, but what is true is that prewar cars are on very narrow tyres and easier to drive as a result. Anyone who has experienced Humber Super Snipes and Silver Clouds on crossplies, or even old Yanks will know how truly awful they can be.

FWIW Bias plies are cross plies with bracing under the tread area and they're better than just crossplies.

BigJohn · Joined: 01 Jan 2011 Posts: 954 Location: Wem, Shropshire

When I had my Standard Vanguard Phase 2 it came on crossplies. It would follow fresh tarmac lines from road works, probably up someones drive to their gas meter if I let it. It was shocking for tram lining, changing to radials transformed it but it did make the steering a bit heavier. My Standard 12 had X plies and it's brakes vastly exceeded its grip, but then the contact patch was probably smaller than the palm of my hand.