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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:18 am Post subject: Glyptal engine paint. |
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I know of an original MG TA engine (XPJG) block which has developed a problem of oil getting into the water. It is not from the usual cylinder head area but is either an international crack or it has become porous. I wondered if or how this can be sealed. My initial thoughts were to try and seal it by forcing Glyptal red engine paint through the oil passageways. I imagine the block would first need to be "dipped" to remove any contaminants. Does it seem like a realistic plan or is the block now scrap? |
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MikeG
Joined: 16 Sep 2013 Posts: 56 Location: Cheshire/Staffordshire Border
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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When I was an Apprentice working at a large Diesel Engine plant. We use to water test the Cylinder Block.If it leaked we would drill into the block untill we found wet swarf and then pour in a Resin under pressure using an Air Line.Re Water Test and plug the drilled hole.
I dont know if this would work on your Block,but may give you food for thought. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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MikeG wrote: | When I was an Apprentice working at a large Diesel Engine plant. We use to water test the Cylinder Block.If it leaked we would drill into the block untill we found wet swarf and then pour in a Resin under pressure using an Air Line.Re Water Test and plug the drilled hole.
I dont know if this would work on your Block,but may give you food for thought. |
I would need to see it done before trying anything that invasive. I just wondered if Glyptal would seal it inside in the same way that it seals the porous exterior finish that newly sand blasted cast iron has. These engines have a reputation for being fragile; they were not very good quality castings apparently and many have been replaced with the later XPAG unit. |
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Farmer John
Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 181 Location: Manawatu NZ
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:42 pm Post subject: MG oil in water |
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Ray, the first step is to find the actual leak. Any action taken without knowing precisely where the leak or leaks are will lead you into a maze.
Be very careful about discounting leaks at the head interface, head studs included.
Strip the head and supply oil at compressor pressure to the oil galleries. Use a rod to find all the galleries they are always drilled therefore easy to follow. Have the head inverted (oil will pour out of the valve gear) and filled with water. The overhead system operates at a much lower pressure than your compressor so a result should be pretty quick.
If you have a good look at the block there will be very few places where oil is anywhere near enough to leak into the water. Look closely at behind the timing gears, often there is an oil feed for the gears or chain. If there is a front bearer plate remove it, same for rear.
The water does not go as far down into the block as we often think, the drain tap will tell you, most of the crank oiling is far below. Use the rods in the oil galleries. As the galleries are all drilled some need to be plugged, check the plugs.
Supply pressurised oil with the block upright.
Any blanking plates to replace waterpump or thermostat etc. made with a piece of rubber, cork, any gasket material, and a stout piece of timber (like 2") or 10+mm steel or alloy.
I must say that I am assuming this to be OHV and similar to a Morris engine? Worked on one once at the tech, but that was fifty years ago and I remember it being green. That is all I remember.
That is a valuable post from Mike showing that anything is possible, they were rescuing an expensive engine, you are hoping to rescue a rare one.
I know it sounds like a lot of work but it is only labour, and we do not count labour do we! |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7119 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Glyptal engine paint. |
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Ray White wrote: | Does it seem like a realistic plan or is the block now scrap? |
The 3 studs that retain the cover on the cam side of the engine are not too clever in my (limited) experience. It might be worth checking that they are not drilled into the water jacket.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Glyptal engine paint. |
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peter scott wrote: | Ray White wrote: | Does it seem like a realistic plan or is the block now scrap? |
The 3 studs that retain the cover on the cam side of the engine are not too clever in my (limited) experience. It might be worth checking that they are not drilled into the water jacket.
Peter |
I don't know for sure but it looks like there are only two studs! |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7119 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Sorry,
I forgot the TA has two studs and the TB has three but do check that your water leakage is not coming from them. I can't remember whether they are meant to penetrate the water jacket or not but I'm pretty sure I came across one that did on a TB.
Peter _________________ http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. The engine is not mine but I can pass on your ideas. |
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Whitegoatie
Joined: 01 Feb 2016 Posts: 59 Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Glyptal engine paint. |
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Ray White wrote: | I know of an original MG TA engine (XPJG) block which has developed a problem of oil getting into the water. It is not from the usual cylinder head area but is either an international crack or it has become porous. I wondered if or how this can be sealed. My initial thoughts were to try and seal it by forcing Glyptal red engine paint through the oil passageways. I imagine the block would first need to be "dipped" to remove any contaminants. Does it seem like a realistic plan or is the block now scrap? |
Rather than risk blocking an oil gallery with paint, can the block be filled with coolant and pressure tested? If oil is finding its way into the coolant, coolant should be able to find its way into the oil ways. It might be easier to seal the water jacket. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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I thank you for your suggestion Whitegoatie but with the engine dismantled I can't think how to pressure test the block. I am no expert but your idea sounds very sensible and perhaps should have been tried first - before throwing in the towel.! I share with you the fear that paint could block the oil ways. Paint has a habit of running and pooling so it might be a risk if you can't see what is going on inside.
I think all the points made here are enough to give the owner something to work with. Thank you everyone. |
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Whitegoatie
Joined: 01 Feb 2016 Posts: 59 Location: Stamford, Lincolnshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ray White wrote: | I thank you for your suggestion Whitegoatie but with the engine dismantled I can't think how to pressure test the block. I am no expert but your idea sounds very sensible and perhaps should have been tried first - before throwing in the towel.! |
Probably a job for a specialist, you need to clamp a plate to the block surface, and plug any outlets, bottom hose, water pump, heater hoses etc.
A company like Surelock, or the guy who pressure tested my cylinder head, Malcolm at M&G Castings, would be able to advise.
This is my head going through the process, not as easy for a block, but do able.
[img]IMG_0512 by Jeremy Ball, on Flickr[/img] |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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OMG! I see what you mean!
That looks like a medieval torture chamber for engines! |
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