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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6371 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:19 am Post subject: S.U.fuel pump |
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I have an old (possibly original) 12 volt, positive earth SU fuel pump that was fitted to the car. It was working O.K. but I will not want to rely on it... so what should I do?
I could get a rebuild kit from Holden and refurbish the pump and fit my new transil...
... OR
I could buy a new electronic SU pump but I have heard of reliability issues with new pumps. Some apparently fail after quite a short time. Is this really the case?
What is the best way to go? |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4127 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Hi Ray
Firstly the SU fuel pumps are not polarity sensitive, unless they have a diode fitted (the diode prolongs the life of the points, but can be removed or reversed in the event of a polarity change)
The electronic pumps do nothing more than replace the points and if the electronics fail you are stuck!
There is a rebuild video on this link (bottom of the page):
http://morrisregisterspares.co.uk/?product=epk700-service-kit-su-fuel-pumps
I'd rebuild the original
Dave |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1958 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have used the Facet solid state pumps for decades, without failure.
Not original to look at, but fitted to all the vehicles I used in competition....where reliability/repairability was almost paramount.
Whilst SU pump look nice and guccily vintage...I find them bulky[especially where space is at a premium?].
But, hey, that's just me!
BTW, on an SU pump, is one not stuck if the points fail too?
If getting home again under one's own steam is an issue..then why not fit a schrader valve into the fuel filler..then if the pump fails, one can use the obligatory air pump which one ought to be carrying, to slightly pressurise the tank....that'll push some fuel through nicely too. _________________ Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6371 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Dave and Alastair. Two perfectly reasonable views that differ but perfectly sum up my dilemma.
Since seeing my business crumble to ruins I seem to have lost my self confidence. I am now nervous about changing the MG too much. While a new / different pump would be one answer, there are aesthetic reasons for keeping the original SU.
As we now have a very small income my wife and I are agreed that economies need to be made. So, I thank you Alastair for your input but on this occasion I will go with Dave's suggestion that I rebuild the pump that I already have.
That is a really good video of a SU pump rebuild and I will follow it closely. I have even been given permission by the Boss to use the dining table (so long as I cover it)!! |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6371 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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First problem. I have removed the plastic cap and the first thing I noticed was that the points are different. The pump I have (probably 1949) has A single points set. All the rebuild kits I have seen have a twin points set up.
What do I do ? |
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DM
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 212 Location: North Cornwall
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ray White wrote: | First problem. I have removed the plastic cap and the first thing I noticed was that the points are different. The pump I have (probably 1949) has A single points set. All the rebuild kits I have seen have a twin points set up.
What do I do ? |
I have an old SU pump in the garage you can have if it helps, not sure of it's age but it has the doulble points and plastic inlet and outlet pipes. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1958 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I really only wanted to make the point that solid state electronics need not be unreliable.....mind, I will say that a Facet pump is one heck of a sight cheaper than the equivalent SU....
I too, have an SU or two kicking around in a box somewhere...with nothing I can think of to use them on? Oh well, maybe time will tell?
I am sorry to read your business has collopsed....
Still the only way is up??? _________________ Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4127 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ray ; all the new SU points are dual and a direct replacement for the single points; it aids reliability.
We (MR spares) virtually had to virtually give away the last single contact point that we had, as the dual points were only a few pennies more!
Personally I stick with the original SU, they are simple to fix and set up and only need a bit of attention every 20,000 miles or a points clean if the vehicle is left standing.
The Facet pumps Alastair mentions get great reviews and you could buy one for not much more than the cost of an SU rebuild kit! but you wold miss the reassuring tick of an SU !
Dave |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22477 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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alastairq wrote: | I really only wanted to make the point that solid state electronics need not be unreliable.....mind, I will say that a Facet pump is one heck of a sight cheaper than the equivalent SU....
I too, have an SU or two kicking around in a box somewhere...with nothing I can think of to use them on? Oh well, maybe time will tell?
I am sorry to read your business has collopsed....
Still the only way is up??? |
I remember reading about Facet pumps when I had my P5B years ago, there were comments floating around online about them being quite noisy?
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
OCC & classic car merchandise (Austin, Ford ++):
https://www.redbubble.com/people/OldClassicCar/shop |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6371 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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ukdave2002 wrote: | Ray ; all the new SU points are dual and a direct replacement for the single points; it aids reliability..............
Dave |
That's just what I wanted to know, Dave.
I have ordered a kit and will refurbish my SU pump as soon as it arrives.
There is a specific location on a TC for the pump. It bolts onto the front of the battery box and I have just bought a new braided stainless steel hose and a glass in line filter that just reaches. All a bit bling but it will soon age.
As it happens, I have also repaired the broken cover for the RF95 control Box and will keep it just for show with the alternator. It can still be useful as a junction box. That also has a mounting on the battery box - along with the coil. A pretty crowded area !
Last edited by Ray White on Sat May 09, 2020 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6371 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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alastairq wrote: |
I am sorry to read your business has collopsed....
Still the only way is up??? |
Thank you Alastair. Unfortunately, until people start going away again we are redundant. What with Rolls Royce (Derby's main employer) shedding staff in their thousands I don't envisage our Licensed Boarding Cattery (one of the best in Derbyshire) recovering during our tenure.
We have no option but to retire. |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1586 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Having owned Jaguars for nigh on 40 years I have always carried a spare SU pump and, on many occasions, helped someone out who had come to France and broken down. All I have asked is that they send me a replacement, which they have always done, and the latest on the shelf can be fitted to either negative or positive earth cars I see. But in most cases a quick rub with an emery board or such will get it ticking again. Assuming you have first tried hitting it with a spanner that is . But it does seem that the modern electronic ones are very reliable, although 20 years ago the first ones were certainly not. I have an electronic immersed one in mine right now. |
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norustplease
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 782 Location: Lancashire
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:14 am Post subject: |
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[/quote]
I remember reading about Facet pumps when I had my P5B years ago, there were comments floating around online about them being quite noisy?
RJ[/quote]
Facet pumps are quite noisy if not fitted with some kind of resilient mounting. My Traction had an SU pump (new) fitted to replace a Facet (no mechanical pump) which I deemed too noisy, it being rigidly fitted to the chassis. The SU, however, let me down on several occassions for no apparent reason and so I refitted a new Facet on rubber mounts. There is a little noise when the ignition is initally switched on, but that subsides to almost nothing when the pump has filled up the system. This is quite useful, especially when the car has been sat for a couple of weeks, because you then know that it is time to press the button to start the car, and don't waste essential battery power churning the engine over to pump fuel though the system as you would with a mech pump. _________________ 1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV |
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Penman
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4766 Location: Swindon, Wilts.
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
If by any remote chance it proves not possible to refurb your SU, you can always leave it in place as a straight through filter, and dummy wires attached but without it's mechanical parts, valves, diaphragm etc , and then fit another pump out of sight along the fuel line. _________________ Bristols should always come in pairs.
Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10 |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6371 Location: Derby
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Penman wrote: | Hi
If by any remote chance it proves not possible to refurb your SU, you can always leave it in place as a straight through filter, and dummy wires attached but without it's mechanical parts, valves, diaphragm etc , and then fit another pump out of sight along the fuel line. |
Maybe not quite what I had in mind but along similar lines I had considered a discretely located back up pump; not particularly for manical failure but rather as a stand by in the event of a vapour lock. On a warm day there may be higher than desirable under bonnet temperatures resulting from the supercharger and particularly the extractor manifold.
I will be fitting a refurbished radiator, an electric fan and an upgraded water pump but who knows what global warming has in store for us?? |
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