Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:37 am Post subject: Electronic vs Standard Distributors |
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Back a few years when I had just finished recommissioning my Singer, it developed running issues.
At that point, I managed to source a NOS carb and duly fitted that, made some difference but then the poor running returned.
Luckily, after one poor run, I had the car ticking over in the garage when it cut out. A quick check showed no spark out of the period Lucas electronic system.
I had a show that weekend (remember them!!) so looked for a standard dizzy and decided to risk a cheap accuspark complete unit (£60 delivered at the time)
Fitted it with the intention to swap it as time allowed. It’s still there and tbf works well.
Now, I managed to find a New, Old Stock standard unit, it came to me from an old guy who was selling up, in a lovely Lucas box.
My question is, apart from the ease of being able to replace the points etc, would the auto advance and retard curve that the Lucas unit has make any difference to the engine running give that the accuspark must be quite generic?
Thinking on, the Lucas unit must be quite generic too as the same unit is fitted to many engines.
Sorry for the ramble.
Kev |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6319 Location: Derby
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I would buy the Lucas unit and keep it in the car as a spare...just in case the electronic packs up.
One thing I have suspected is that there is not much difference between cheap and expensive electronic things in terms of reliability there are just more functions; most of which you don't need.
So don't miss out on the chance of a NOS Lucas dizzy is my advice, for what it's worth. |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:45 am Post subject: |
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The Lucas unit is already on the shelf Ray.
Just thinking if it’s worthwhile swapping over or leave well be.
Kev |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1954 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Whilst on the subject... purely as an example , I have no personal experience, of this, but a good chum who is well qualified has one on his MGB and reckons it's the dee's bee-exxe's...
https://123ignition.com/
The advantage lies with the programmable advance curves.
I am a fan of using modern technology to improve the efficiency of old technology.
Especially the use of [Accuspark?] Hall effect units which simply replace the points & condenser, within the distributor. Reverting back to points and condenser, should the desire arise, is simply a case of either swapping back components, or as would be the case on my Ford side valves, simply unscrewing and swapping the distributor baseplates....which can be already 'loaded', so to speak.
However, whilst the Hall effect points replacement eliminates the inherent deficiencies of a mechanical points-based system [which car makers got rid of as soon as the technology was reliably & easily available?]...one is still left with the original means of providing appropriate ignition advance.
I often wonder whether my Ford sidevalve engines might benefit, for example, by the fitment of vacuum advance ?
Given that fuels today are nothing like the fuels available to Ford owners back in the 40's and 50's of last century?
The fitting of kit like the 123 system I quoted above [there will be others]....allows an opportunity to try different timing advances out, easily, and less invasively, once the system is installed.
My other [US] Ford has a US aftermarket electronic distributor fitted [ the cheapest option to overcome a conundrum]...which is entirely self contained..the only outward changes being the odd extra wire here & there...
But, it arrived with a choice of 3 different weights of mechanical advance springs..[ to accommodate the different types of vehicle my engine would have been fitted to]...albeit without too much advice as to what might suit what?
Playing around would involve much removal, stripping, re-assembling and timing up ....so I made a guess, which seems to be about right.......
How nice it might have been if I could have borrowed a laptop, and done all the experimenting, wirelessly, as the car is driven up & down the test road? _________________ Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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My accuspark unit came as a complete replacement dizzy, that’s what got me thinking if the advance/retard suits the particular engine.
Only one way of finding out I suppose.
The 123 system looks fantastic and would be ideal in a higher tuned motor that my humble Singer.
Kev |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1954 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The 123 system looks fantastic and would be ideal in a higher tuned motor that my humble Singer.
Kev |
The humble Singer has an engine tuned by the factory to suit the fuel & the job expected of it.
If Money is to be spent, there is no problem in my eyes using something like a 123 system to improve the way the ignition is timed.
After all, the original timing, and the way it was achieved, had to involve a compromise that suited the fuel and conditions of the day?
We no longer have access to those conditions , yet still labour under a compromise in the name of authenticity?
Unless, of course, one wishes to fork out over 4 quids a litre for the petrol that is pretty much made up as it was back then?
So, to adapt our oldies to today's environment, changes [experiments?] need to be made to the fuelling and ignition timing of the old engines...?
Is the Accuspark distributor an exact replica, shape-wise, to the original? Will the original advance springs fit the Accuspark? Does it have a vacuum advance? Does the Accuspark vacuum advance do the business as the original did? [Mine on the US Ford is adjustable...although I hesitate to waste a gallon or two of petrol just to tweek the vacuum advance settings] _________________ Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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The accuspark unit is very faithful to the Lucas unit, no idea if-the springs would fit but it does have vacuum advance.
I find the 99 Ron fuel works well in the car (with an additive).
Kev |
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