Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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 Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: Bristol project |
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I would like to be the be winning bidder on this one!!
https://angliacarauctions.co.uk/classic/sat-6th-sun-7th-november/1954-bristol-403/
The TC should have been finished by now... but it's not so I can't even bid for it. 
Then again, I notice someone has prised open the underside of the sill to see what state the "superleggera" steel frame is in... Pretty rotten I expect... but I like a challenge!  |
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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22784
Location: UK
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Rick wrote: | I wonder how good/bad the 405 is? Personally I prefer the shape of the 405/6/7 to the 403 so at least you won't have me bidding against you 
RJ |
Having spoken to a Bristol restorer I have been getting cold feet.
https://lightscarsaction.com/bristol-401-full-bare-metal-restoration/
I don't yet know what the 403 went for but at least it had it's engine; the 405 had been gutted. If the 405 had been built without wood in it's construction it would probably have been the best 2 litre Bristol ever made.
Interestingly, I know of a restored 403 for sale with an engine that has only done 100 miles since it was overhauled by Bristol but I think I have enough on my plate for now!  |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Results are now in.
The 403 (that I would have been interested in) £16,308 including premium.
The 405 (more to Rick's liking) lacking engine - although everything else is present - £5,400 including premium |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1468
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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My vote would also go to the 405. The 403 styling never attracted me - is is too bulbous in some views.
I would put a XK engine (4.2 from a XJ series 3) in the 405 with the older type of aluminium valve covers and it would be an ideal car. Except tjhat I already have too many projects going on!
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a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| badhuis wrote: | My vote would also go to the 405. The 403 styling never attracted me - is is too bulbous in some views.
I would put a XK engine (4.2 from a XJ series 3) in the 405 with the older type of aluminium valve covers and it would be an ideal car. Except tjhat I already have too many projects going on! |
The styling of the earlier cars - particularly the 401/3 is very much a personal choice. To me they are supremely elegant vehicles. I understand (from those in the know) that the streamlined design also has a low drag co efficient. When they were introduced they were years ahead of anything else and very expensive... but my interest in these cars really didn't begin until the 1980s when I noticed one parked outside my place of work. I was intrigued then and have thought about owning one ever since but somehow it never happened. |
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mikeC
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1809
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I would suggest a Triumph 2000 engine would be an ideal fit in the 405.
_________________
in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on! |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7214
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I can understand people wanting a Bristol with the 328 engine but anything else is beyond me.
Peter
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https://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| peter scott wrote: | I can understand people wanting a Bristol with the 328 engine but anything else is beyond me.
Peter |
That would be ideal but these poor cars were savaged for their engines by the racing fraternity and are now hard to come by. There are lots of Bristols around with their engine missing. The question is what should happen to them if they are otherwise too good to break for spares.?
The 328 engine suffers from frost damage more than most. It cracks horizontally behind the manifold so is not always spotted until it's too late!!!
The cost of a good 328 engine seems to be around the £20K mark; add another £10k for a rebuild and the sums don't add up.
The Triumph 2000 engine would seem to be a logical option if it fits. It has about the same power output @ 100bhp. I know the XK engine doesn't fit without major surgery so probably a no go.
I understand the most popular (and cheap) alternative is the Volvo Red Block (whatever that is).
Personally, I would think it really needs to be a six. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2119
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Volvo made a six, the B30.
I don't know if it will be a tad too long, however?
The other, cheapo options might be the Ford Zodiac or Vauxhall Cresta inline sixes?
If only to get the Bristol on the road?
Much the same sort of dilemma that MG enthusiasts faced around the late 1940's? [Do they persevere with the teeny tiny[quickbooks, sorry] blown P engines? Or do they simply substitute a reliable Ford 1172 sidevalve engine instead....? Just to get the rest of the car back up & running?
I suspect in those days, many P-type MG owners were not overly endowed with cash [as they seem to be these days?] so having a running,useable car was considered more important than VALUES?
There was a Bristol 400/401 on the market some years ago, which didn't have a Bristol engine in it....A useable motor car despite that! I don't know what it sold for [or, if it sold?], but , going down the road, I doubt anyone noticed it didn't have a Bristol engine in it?
With a bit of thought, nothing is irreversible....One could always sell one's house to buy a wreck of a Bristol engine to work on?
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| alastairq wrote: |
With a bit of thought, nothing is irreversible....One could always sell one's house to buy a wreck of a Bristol engine to work on? |
On that point, Alastair - I am only guessing - but I suspect one of the expense problems with the (328 type) 2 litre engine is that the dry liners are made from Brivadium which I presume means they are too hard to re bore and have to be replaced. Obviously, original pistons are virtually unobtainable but you could always use +060" XPAG pistons (MG T type) and modify the little ends. |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1468
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| peter scott wrote: | | I can understand people wanting a Bristol with the 328 engine but anything else is beyond me. |
Why not? Remember Bristol used Chrysler engines in later years. The Jaguar Mk IV had a Standard engine!
I am all in favour of using the original engine. But if the car is without that engine, and those engines are too rare/expensive to get hold of, and it is YOUR car, then why not. Better to have a running car than one stored in a corner for decades.
I love Jensens, they used Austin, Chrysler and Lotus engines. Lotus used (reworked) Ford engines. The Rover V8 was a reworked Buick engine. The MG Midget 1500 had a Triumph engine and the MGB V8 had that Rover/Buick engine. Sunbeam Tiger with a Ford V8, there's the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. I am sure there are many more examples.
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a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2119
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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On that vein, AC cars also made use of both Bristol and Ford 6 cylinder engines....Especially in the case of AC's own, very aged design of 6 cylinder engine?
I am minded of US practice of 50 years ago r more, where Ferrari engines were replaced by various large US V8 engines, especially when being raced?
A case of, either persevering with relatively fragile and very expensive, Italian exotica...or switching to reliable, easy to obtain, cheap enough, US engines?
I can recall in the motoring press of the time, much wringing of hands and distraught features on the part of 'true enthusiasts'....[who, it may be noted, don't have to actually 'pay ' for the resurrection of their dream engines?]
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7105
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I particularly admire the symmetry and style of the earlier "Art Deco" 401 dashboard with white switch gear and instruments. So long as it was solid underneath and looked tidy, if the original engine had been replaced I would still like it. However, I would doubtless be on the lookout for a correct Bristol engine...start doing the
Lotto???
Just a nice place to be. (Yes, the steering wheel is inverted)
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7214
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| badhuis wrote: | | peter scott wrote: | | I can understand people wanting a Bristol with the 328 engine but anything else is beyond me. |
Why not? Remember Bristol used Chrysler engines in later years. The Jaguar Mk IV had a Standard engine!
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It's true that the 1½ litre engine did find its way into postwar Triumphs but it appeared in the 1½ litre SS Jaguar long before Triumph got it. As to the sixes their engine never appeared in any Standard or Triumph although the bottom end of the 2½ litre was derived from the Standard 20. http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk/new%20page%2012.htm
Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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