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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7119
Location: Edinburgh
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Back in the mid 80’s my first job after graduating was with Sharp Electronics designing bits of their Video Recorders. At the time Sharp backed VHS rather than the Sony Betamax system. As engineers we knew that Betamax was a much better system, however it wasn’t marketed as well as VHS, and as we know VHS won.
A hydrogen fuelled vehicle addresses ;clean emissions, quick refuelling & decent distance between refuelling.
I fear however that hydrogen will lose in the same way that Betamax did.
Dave |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6318
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Probably not the same but LPG has all but died. There was a flurry of bi-fuel vehicles using LPG by the major manufacturers but a combination of things led to its demise.
Theoretically a Hydrogen cell could produce all the electricity for an electric car and obviate the need for charging points and the associated infrastructure. Unfortunately the blinkers are on and yet another great idea will probably come to nought. |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7119
Location: Edinburgh
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petelang
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 444
Location: Nottingham
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:01 am Post subject: |
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How absolutely typical! The Germans are ahead of the game yet again. Probably because they don't have short sighted investors and view the long term profit instead of "quick buck" British investors.
The UK should have been far, far ahead in this race.
So we will be trading in our polluting BMW and Audis for the new green versions thinking how wonderful the German car industry has saved the planet!
In the words of Alanis Morissette, "isn't it ironic!"
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Daimler Fifteen 1934
Armstrong Siddeley 15 Long 1933
Daimler V8 250 1969 |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7119
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: |
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The aircraft industry seems rather quiet on the subject too. We can't run them from an overhead wire or an onboard battery (at least not very far) so they really have no option but to hydrogen (or possibly amonia).
Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6318
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion we are about (as a Country) to miss out on the single most significant development since the Industrial Revolution.
The quantum computer. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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+1 |
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Brent29
Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| ukdave2002 wrote: | Back in the mid 80’s my first job after graduating was with Sharp Electronics designing bits of their Video Recorders. At the time Sharp backed VHS rather than the Sony Betamax system. As engineers we knew that Betamax was a much better system, however it wasn’t marketed as well as VHS, and as we know VHS won.
A hydrogen fuelled vehicle addresses ;clean emissions, quick refuelling & decent distance between refuelling.
I fear however that hydrogen will lose in the same way that Betamax did.
Dave |
Good point there, Dave. But there's a potential for hydrogen in the future when the fossil oil runs out. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6318
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:39 am Post subject: |
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The issue around Hydrogen is one of production.
Hydrogen is a clean fuel (with only water vapour as an emission ) but it is not environmentally friendly to produce in the quantities required.
What we might see, however, is the emergence of completely self contained hydrogen/electric hybrid cars. They will use electric power to produce the hydrogen that can be burned in the normal way.
I have been impressed with "solar film" experiments that invisibly cover most of the car. If enough solar energy can be absorbed and combined with KERS then enough Hydrogen might be produced by the vehicles themselves to be self supporting.
As Lord Bamford himself said (in the Harry's Farm video interview kindly posted by Crashbox)
"Many countries are now committed to Hydrogen".
Says it all really. 
Last edited by Ray White on Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Crashbox
Joined: 30 Apr 2021
Posts: 139
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Brent29
Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Crashbox wrote: | | https://youtu.be/H6_qAta3Gk8 |
Very educational. They are overcoming the obstacles of using hydrogen. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Given that major vehicle manufacturers in Japan and Germany, (countries that supply a huge percentage of new vehicles purchased in the UK) are developing hydrogen vehicles, it supports the move in the UK to hydrogen.
The required cost & development in infrastructure to build hydrogen stations (adapt current petrol stations), is a fraction of what will be required to implement a fast electrical charging network, the penny will eventually drop!
I believe the future of cars is electric, but the power source won't be a battery.
Dave |
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Keith D
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1129
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I believe the future of cars is electric, but the power source won't be a battery. |
I agree with you Dave
_________________
1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution |
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Bitumen Boy
Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1735
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ukdave2002 wrote: | Given that major vehicle manufacturers in Japan and Germany, (countries that supply a huge percentage of new vehicles purchased in the UK) are developing hydrogen vehicles, it supports the move in the UK to hydrogen.
The required cost & development in infrastructure to build hydrogen stations (adapt current petrol stations), is a fraction of what will be required to implement a fast electrical charging network, the penny will eventually drop!
I believe the future of cars is electric, but the power source won't be a battery.
Dave |
Agreed on all points. I just hope that hydrogen becomes practical before the government has pushed too much investment in battery EVs which they seem to be a little obsessed with at the moment. I can't help thinking that batteries are popular with politicians because the rare metals they use are good investments, compared with hydrogen which is simply stored in a pressurised tank - comparatively simple technology made of comparatively cheap materials.
Another benefit of hydrogen technology, of course, is that it supports a transition to green electricity. Intermittent renewable generation isn't a problem if surplus electricity can be used to produce hydrogen, which could be stored in large quantities for a long time. |
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