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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby
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 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:14 pm Post subject: Morris Minor wipers |
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I am not too proud to admit when I don't understand something.
I understand how the later type work but what I would like to know is exactly how these "clap hands" windscreen wipers (as found on pre '63 Morris Minors) work.
I know there is a worm type wire inside the bundy tube that connects with wheel boxes to drive the spindles.
What I want to know is how one rotates left while the other rotates to the right.?
Do the angles of worm and wheel differ from each other?
or if there is no change in drive angle does the end of the assembly loop back under the scuttle somehow?
Sorry, I just don't know. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1954
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Possibly one box is back to front compared to the other?
I have a similar characteristic on the '67 mustang, where one wiper has a different arc of sweep to the other.....Although the motor is mounted more or less in the centre of the bulkhead [accessed from inside, behind the dash...handy if used to working flat out, upside down]....working each wiper spindle via rods..
Luckily for my feeble brain, they work, still...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose direction is determined by which side of the wheel in the wheel box, the cable passes? And that would be determined by which way round the box is fitted.
Dave |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Alastair and Dave. If one box is back to front wouldn't the splines also face the other way?
The way I saw it was that if the gear wheels were different then the angle of the gear/worm drives would be also. That's what I would like to find out. Does the worm/cable bit inside the bundy tube somehow change at some point to match different gear wheels. (On later cars they are the same as the wipers are in tandem.)
If the gears are the same, the only other way I can see it working is by having it loop back on itself - and it doesn't look like it will do that!
My idea was that if I change the TC screen mounted wiper motor I would need the "clap hands" type for the splines to be equally distant on each side of the scuttle. I just think it would look odd having one at the side and one in the middle; especially as this would be quite a radical departure from the original design.
Every road going TC I look at has the motor in the original head impaling place on the screen frame. It is quite a distinctive feature but as I want to drive the car (rather than just trailer it to shows) do I really want that ugly black lump in my line of sight - just because most other owners are OK with it. ?
Really?? |
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Rich5ltr
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 678
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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One wiper block is on top, the other is underneath hence as the rack moves in and out the spindles rotate in opposite directions.  |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rich5ltr wrote: | | One wiper block is on top, the other is underneath hence as the rack moves in and out the spindles rotate in opposite directions. |
Sounds about right...except I don't recognise your description of a "rack moves in and out" . As far as I know the cable simply rotates and doesn't go in / out. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1954
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've done a brief internet search, and it appears the clapping' 'ands for Minors only have one wheelbox part number listed.
My guess is, as per Rich5ltr, is that one box is mounted, upside down? I think this is what I meant by being back-to-front?
I cannot find an exploding diagram so far....
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ray the cable moves in out by an amount that’s relative to the position of the peg on the wheel in the wiper motor, where the cable attaches.
If you reverse the position of the wheel box, the spline will still face upwards, however the direction of the spline will have also been reversed.
If you take the cover off the motor wheel housing & same with a wheel box , all will become clear
Dave |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ukdave2002 wrote: | Ray the cable moves in out by an amount that’s relative to the position of the peg on the wheel in the wiper motor, where the cable attaches.
If you reverse the position of the wheel box, the spline will still face upwards, however the direction of the spline will have also been reversed.
If you take the cover off the motor wheel housing & same with a wheel box , all will become clear
Dave |
I wish I had one to examine. They are sometimes for sale on eBay (what looked like a good example recently sold for£40 minus wiper arms/blades). The one in the above photo looks a bit rough though!! |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray White wrote: | | ukdave2002 wrote: | Ray the cable moves in out by an amount that’s relative to the position of the peg on the wheel in the wiper motor, where the cable attaches.
If you reverse the position of the wheel box, the spline will still face upwards, however the direction of the spline will have also been reversed.
If you take the cover off the motor wheel housing & same with a wheel box , all will become clear
Dave |
I wish I had one to examine. They are sometimes for sale on eBay (what looked like a good example recently sold for£40 minus wiper arms/blades). The one in the above photo looks a bit rough though!! |
Ray
This is the underside of the wheel box on my MGA, if the wheel box is flipped 180 ° the cable turns the cam in the wheel box on the otherwise, hence the direction is reversed.
As you can see I have used some central heating piping to house the cable! This was because bought the cheapest wiper setup that I could find on eBay that had the Lucas DR2 motor, knowing that I would have to reposition the peg on the motor wheel to obtain the correct sweep, from memory the wheels are marked with the sweep angle, and from that you can work out where the peg needs to be to obtain the required sweep.
With the set up in the photo you could have clap hands or parallel wipers, the pipes can be shortened to suit or, as in my case use some soft copper to fabricate new ones.
Dave[img][/img]
Last edited by ukdave2002 on Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rich5ltr
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 678
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray White wrote: | | Rich5ltr wrote: | | One wiper block is on top, the other is underneath hence as the rack moves in and out the spindles rotate in opposite directions. |
Sounds about right...except I don't recognise your description of a "rack moves in and out" . As far as I know the cable simply rotates and doesn't go in / out. |
Inside the wiper motor the rack is connected to a wheel which, as it rotates, pushes and pulls the rack out and back inside the outer cable. The inner cable does not rotate, it slides to and fro'. Imagine a steering rack, that's what the cable is like, it's not like a speedo cable.
Last edited by Rich5ltr on Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rich5ltr
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 678
Location: Hampshire, UK
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you everyone. I feel I have now learned something worth while.
What a great bunch of guys you are. 
(Dave. Unfortunately, your photo bucket link isn't working for me.  ) |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Ray White wrote: | | (Dave. Unfortunately, your photo bucket link isn't working for me. ) |
Fixed! |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ukdave2002 wrote: | | Ray White wrote: | | (Dave. Unfortunately, your photo bucket link isn't working for me. ) |
Fixed! |
Thankyou Dave.
Someone I know has done a similar thing with his TD. He also used a DR2.
What is the advantage of this model wiper motor, please? |
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