classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy     F/book OCC Facebook     OCC on Patreon

Amps or Watts?
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Electrical Restoration
Author Message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:25 pm    Post subject: Amps or Watts? Reply with quote

Due to not having had any kind of electrics education I find myself floundering in terminology.

My 12 volt wiper motor should be fed by a twin core flex cable that needs to be small enough to go through the holes in the windscreen frame. My choice of wire is rather limited but I do have a reel of grey flex which is similar to speaker wire. I know the small type of speaker wire (16 gauge) can carry at least 13 amps (similar to lamp wire) so as the normal current consumption of the motor is only 2.5 amps I thought it might be suitable.

If not please say now before I trap it behind the glass in the frame.

What I don't understand is why there is no wattage value for the wiper motor in the Lucas workshop instructions...but there is an amperage value given.?

12v x 2.5a = 30w

Why one and not the other?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the vehicle industry always struggled with presenting electrics to mechanics who predominantly dealt with oily stuff, as such electrical items tend to be described on a “ need to know “ basis. Wiring requirements for a device that consumes say 30W as a resistive load such as a light bulb will be different for a inductive (motor) load that in the case of a wiper motor is intermittent, starting and stopping.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:56 pm    Post subject: Wiper motor gets hot. Reply with quote

My CWX wiper motor works O.K... but after a 20 minute test run on the bench it had become uncomfortably warm; not too hot to touch but you wouldn't want to hold onto it for too long. Lucas expected the motor to run warm but it was beginning to smell.

The wires remained cool to the touch.

Is there anything that I could do to improve this please?

...(yes, I know ...don't run it for as long ) Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 822
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are pretty simple motors, so I would pop the cover off & replace all the hardened, dried-up grease, clean the commutator, put one drop of oil on the bearings, etc.
In normal use on the windscreen, the airflow will probably keep it cooler.
_________________
Mike - MVPeters at comcast.net
2002 MINI Cooper 'S'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4105
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also check the field and armature coils are in tact, look for physical damage and check the resistance, specifically ensure that all 3 armature coils have the same resistance, and both field coils have the same resistance, I'm not sure what the actual field and armature resistances should be, it will be on the internet somewhere!

If any of the coils are damaged its a simple enough job to rewind them.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 444
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine runs hot too but it's seldom on for long as I polish the glass with Rainex so mostly the rain just runs off. Occasionally I have to put it on for a few sweeps when you get fine drizzle or sleet.
As long as its not so hot that you can't keep your hand warming on it, I think it will be OK.
_________________
Daimler Fifteen 1934
Armstrong Siddeley 15 Long 1933
Daimler V8 250 1969
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:
They are pretty simple motors, so I would pop the cover off & replace all the hardened, dried-up grease, clean the commutator, put one drop of oil on the bearings, etc.
In normal use on the windscreen, the airflow will probably keep it cooler.


I have replaced the old grease with new. I used the recommended white PH grease. I also lightly oiled the bearings. Thanks anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
Also check the field and armature coils are in tact, look for physical damage and check the resistance, specifically ensure that all 3 armature coils have the same resistance, and both field coils have the same resistance, I'm not sure what the actual field and armature resistances should be, it will be on the internet somewhere!

If any of the coils are damaged its a simple enough job to rewind them.

Dave


Everything looks OK to my untrained eye but I haven't checked the resistance. The armature resistance should be between 4.4 - 4.8 ohms and the field resistance of each coil should be 8.0 - 9.0 ohms.

If the resistance is higher I wouldn't know what to do about it.

As to re winding coils...I have never attempted such a thing (although I did once mend a broken wire on a dynamo and that's about it).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

petelang wrote:
Mine runs hot too but it's seldom on for long as I polish the glass with Rainex so mostly the rain just runs off. Occasionally I have to put it on for a few sweeps when you get fine drizzle or sleet.
As long as its not so hot that you can't keep your hand warming on it, I think it will be OK.


Well, they are supposed to run "warm" but it is subjective. I have read about "Rainex" but never tried it. Good idea, thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CWhaley1



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 61
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can vouch for Rainox. I actually used it on my 'new' car (Peugeot 406) as no matter how many adjustments I made, the wipers always missed a small section of the screen. The Rainox meant water didn't sit there any more.

I use it on the Singer as the one speed wiper can be less-than-ideal in the wet and windy Erewash valley!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6319
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWhaley1 wrote:
I can vouch for Rainox. I actually used it on my 'new' car (Peugeot 406) as no matter how many adjustments I made, the wipers always missed a small section of the screen. The Rainox meant water didn't sit there any more.

I use it on the Singer as the one speed wiper can be less-than-ideal in the wet and windy Erewash valley!


You can't be far from me in Little Eaton. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CWhaley1



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 61
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
You can't be far from me in Little Eaton. Very Happy


No not at all! I'm in South Erewash (Sawley). I used to live in Oakwood as it happens, just below.

Used to walk through Little Eaton on the way to Makeney and Holbrook for our Saturday rambling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Electrical Restoration All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
OCC Merch link
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.