Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[petelang]

I can't help thinking after reading most recent contributions, that if artificial intelligence was employed to assess a pass standard for drivers to achieve a licence, there would be a far greater level of failure to pass since logic would dictate and eliminate any emotive assessment.
Perhaps this would be a good thing?
In fact, if new drivers were assessed constantly and the black box detected them driving substantially below required standard and downgraded the vehicles performance or prevented them from driving at all by preventing them from starting or driving further we might all be significantly safer.
A bit like dad taking the keys off you after you've been spotted doing something stupid.
Good idea or not?
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Daimler Fifteen 1934
Armstrong Siddeley 15 Long 1933
Daimler V8 250 1969

[Ray White]

Sounds like something from a George Orwell novel...

[ukdave2002]

https://www.wearemarmalade.co.uk/black-box-insurance

Maybe this should be mandatory for a period after passing the driving test.

[alastairq]

For decades now, I haven't considered new drivers to be the issue regarding road safety.
They are far better 'trained' and assessed [emotive responses ar essentially, 'ironed out' by Examiner's training courses}than ever older drivers were.

The real issues regarding road safety {IMHO] center on the 40-70 year old drivers.
Most Of whom, by any metric, should know better, think they know better, but, in fact, haven't a clue!
This is borne out by observations of drivers ,something I did for decades, as part of ''the job?''

The problem with older drivers, IMHO, is that they try to invent their own ideas about 'safety'....with age bringing the arrogance of thinking ''they know better''.
This aspect is symptomatic of what is known as 'training-fade', or 'skills-fade'

Drivers have a habit of learning the wrong things from experience.

Which is why, in any industry, training needs to be continuous rather than a 'one-off'.

LGV and PCV drivers are better off for the 5 year refresher courses {CPC] than without.
Many transport employers put their drivers through regular driving assessments [EYMS, for example, had their own in-house instructors/assessors]...thus keeping drivers on top of the game.

Perhaps insurers should have a more active role to play in driver training? They do so with the road haulage industry, so why not with the private vehicle world?
Insures could insist on drivers who have successful claims made against them, undergo driver assessments and necessary re-training before they can be insured again?

When I hear that phrase 'common sense'' being spouted, I am reminded that one person's idea of common sense, is another person's idea of idiocy.

New drivers have to have achieved a far higher standard of competence to pass the current driving test, than older drivers.

There more to the driving test syllabus than merely some civil servant's idea of what should be done.

When I worked for the last 2 decades before finishing with work[some say, retiring...I don't look at it like that at all]...I had to undergo training courses on ''how to assess.''
Particularly, how to assess someone's driving.

Back in the very late 1970's, I was asked to 'coach' my then-current MIL prior to her taking her driving test [she had failed so many times,she was eligible for the Guiness Book of Records!]

The thinking was, as a bus driver, I ought to have a good idea of what was required.
Apparently she was more frightened of my 'assessments' than she was of the examiner, and passed.
Prior to that, when not under the stress of a 'test', she was a perfectly competent driver....in my view...In other words, riding as a passenger, I wasn't gripping the dashboard!

Decades later when I came to do my in-house training courses which were normal for us as instructors...[OFSTED also loomed large]...I discovered how far off the mark with the art of 'assessment' I really was all those years back.

What AI struggles with, is the varying circumstances at the time, and how much benefit of the doubt comes into play.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Ray White]

One particular issue (that I have mentioned before) has less to do with motorists or their cars and more to do with the design of road layout.

I was once nearly caught out by a set of traffic lights situated at the approach to a roundabout. The Powers that be had located a pedestrian crossing at the junction; in itself not problematic but when combined with a traffic light system it can be.

Take, for example, a motorist who is unfamiliar with the road in question. He has just crossed a series of 'lights controlled' junctions and traffic islands when he approaches a large roundabout.

Let us say he notices the pedestrian crossing signs and there is no one waiting to cross the road. He will see a green light and think it is safe to go onto the roundabout; only to realise at the last moment that it means nothing of the sort.

The green traffic light - in this instance- means there should be no pedestrians crossing his path and has nothing to do with the flow of traffic on the roundabout.

When this happened to me I was able to stop in time because I always look to the right regardless of what the traffic lights say... but I did have to brake suddenly and was VERY lucky that the car behind didn't rear end me, because like me, he must have thought that "Green" meant go and had followed me over the line.

[bjacko]

I am glad Alastairq didn't train me. What a lot of nonsense he wrote above. Just look at the statistics and see who are the people having accidents.
Look at the behaviour of many young drivers people who think they are Nigel Mansell, don't stop at stop signs, overtake on double white lines, drive through red lights etc and generally think they are invincible. At the same time there are some old drivers who think driving slower than everyone else is safer and are just mobile blockades and a menace. There are also many women drivers driving Mayfair jeeps and the like who have no idea about judging the size of their vehicle or the acceleration available, just watch them trying to park or driving out of a side street. As for truck drivers who used to be among the best drivers on the road many are now just bullies tailgating drivers who are driving at the speed limit, cutting cars off, overtaking on double white lines, falling asleep at the wheel, taking drugs to keep awake etc.
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1938 Morris 8 Ser II Coupe Utility (Pickup)
1985 Rover SD1 VDP

[alastairq]

[Ray White]

The problem we have in our Lane is drugs. The mis fits arrive in groups of two or three cars and park close together so stuff can be passed through their open windows.

They don't just stop at dealing but get high as a kite and tear off like Lewis Hamilton. Just last week one of the idiots ran over a cat. It could just as easily have been a child.

We used to have a local Bobby who would keep on top of the problem... but when they cut back on "community policing" he was no where to be seen.

[alastairq]

Indeed, Ray..the underlying issue with any sort of 'undesirable' behaviour is, enforcement.

Like most aspects that underspin our present UK society, chronic under investment over decades has led us to the state we now live in.
Health service
Prison system
Justice system
Social care
Transport
Defence
Power
etc etc etc
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[ukdave2002]

Its not a new problem....

https://youtu.be/mwPSIb3kt_4

[Ray White]

Drugs abuse is the most insidious thing I can think of ...but it's just the tip of the anti social iceberg. When I take Dotty (my Chocolate Labrador) for a walk in the evening, my mood is often changed when I find drinks cans and fast food packaging scattered in the turning area which some morons use as a car park.

Matters get worse when I find someone has allowed their dog to use our grass verge as a toilet.

[Rick]

Yesterday it was the turn of the MX5 (bright yellow) to be cut up in a tiny village, fortunately I was in full-on pootle mode but the plonker in a Golf didn't even look before lurching out of a side turning. Given that I do so little mileage I'm amazed how often this is happening.

RJ
_________________
Rick - Admin
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[peter scott]

For the last few days I've been driving around in a hired Audi A3 40 TFSIe. This is a plug-in hybrid with a 6 speed DSG autobox. It has regenerative braking which is good but what I think is really bad is that it does very little energy recovery on the overrun (next to nothing in fact). Consequently if you want to charge the battery you have to lightly touch the brakes at every opportunity. No doubt giving the impression to drivers behind that you never learnt to drive properly.

Peter
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http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Ray White]

I wonder if the battery still gets charged if you rest your foot on the brake but use the throttle as normal?

[peter scott]