Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ray White]

Does anyone know how I can date Lucas fog lamps, please?

I have an early type SFT 462 with a later glass. I would like to establish - if possible - when the later glass & reflector replaced the earlier version.

As my car is 1949 it may be that the earlier glass (that smashed) was incorrect for the year anyway.

It is just something that has bugged me for ages.

[bjacko]

The 1945-60 Lucas Master Catalogue does not list a SFT463. It does list SFT462. This seems to have a light unit the glass being part of it.
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1938 Morris 8 Ser II Coupe Utility (Pickup)
1985 Rover SD1 VDP

[Rick]

I have a 1949 Lucas accessories catalogue in front of me, it shows the SFT462 with a domed lens featuring closely-spaced vertical flutes, if that helps. I can scan the page if you need to see it.

RJ
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[ukdave2002]

The Lucas catalogue only specifies 1 fog lamp (SFT462 /55063B) up to 1953, from 54 onwards the SFT576 /55128A was fitted. The SFT576 is 5.3/4" diameter whereas the earlier unit is 5.1/16" .



And the SFT 462 (55063B) only had one type light of unit fitted, same lens with or without a pilot:







Hope this helps
Dave

[ukdave2002]

Clearer pic

[Ray White]

This shot shows how the earlier version of the SFT 462 has a stepped reflector and no cross hatching in the lens.

This is clearly different from the later version (thanks Dave) which eschews the stepped reflector and has cross hatching .

When I got the TC it had the wrong (Raydot) fog lamp so I bought an SFT 462 fog lamp which I subsequently restored.

Sadly, in a freak garage accident (some time ago) my original lens was smashed. I have found a replacement SFT 462 lens like the one Dave has posted but the earlier ones (as above) are more scarce.

What I don't know - and would like to establish - is exactly WHEN did Lucas make the change. If the date is before 1949 ( or Chassis 10,030) I can fit the replacement lens and 'non - stepped' reflector to the restored lamp as they are the same size.

[ukdave2002]

It's odd there is no reference to a Stepped light unit only the Blocked in the Lucas Master Parts list, nothing in the Supersession chart either.

The catalogue that shows the Blocked lens is dated 1953, my next earlier catalogue is 1939 and that shows lists the Lucas ST27 Foglamp for the early TC. The ST27 has a separate lens (fluted) whereas the SFT462 has a combined reflector & lens light unit, is it possible that you had ST27 innards in your SFT462? as they are both the same size, did the lens that got damaged have a separate reflector ?

Dave

[Ray White]

Dave. I am also mystified by the catalogue listing. I know that up to TC5000 the FT 27 was fitted. From then on - and into the TD - SFT 462 was fitted.

There were definitely two versions; the first having the stepped reflector (which I still have) with vertical flutes in the glass (that broke) and the type that you posted (which I also have).

What I want to know is which one would have been fitted to TC 10,030 on 25/10/ 1949.

If the change was made prior to my car I am sorted. If not, then I am looking for an early type lens.

[ukdave2002]

One of the things I have come across with pre & early post war Morrises, is that they were not always consistent in parts fitted by the factory, especially with post war shortages. Its possible that Lucas supplied early SFT462's with FT27 innards, assuming they had a surplus of FT27's innards which is probable as they would have been stocked for supply as spares.

I'm speculating here, but have seen it with other factory fitted components of the era.

If I'm right, the reflector and lens will be separate, and you could just source a FT27 lens?

Dave

[Ray White]

[Ray White]

In a development this evening, I have heard from a fellow TC enthusiast in California who thought the later lenses were replacements issued in the 1950s.

It would be interesting to establish the facts.

[ukdave2002]

Ray, Unless the change is documented in the official Service Parts list I think you will struggle to identify at what chassis number the change was made. Additionally unless MG actually specified the change its less likely to be documented for proprietary components that are 100% interchangeable.

Proprietary suppliers such as Lucas, SU would, like any manufacturer been looking for ways of improving components or reducing cost and as long as it met the original "Order" specification from MG unlikely that any sort of change would have been documented.

I have some boxed NOS Morris 8 SE headlamp rims, made by Lucas, however they are not chromed, simply painted silver. There is a small printed note in the box that explains that due to "Post War material shortages" they are not chromed, yet they have the same part number as the chromed originals and I have never seen any reference that differentiates them from the chromed rims in Lucas documentation.

Somewhere in the Lucas archives there would be some reference to the change in your Fog lamp lens, around the same time Lucas seemed to move away from Fluted to Blocked lenses on many headlamp units, so possibly its more of a generic design change, rather than one isolated to the SFT462, if you can date this generic change its probably the most accurate position you can get to.

Dave

[Ray White]

That is a help, Dave. I am sure there is someone who will have researched Lucas history. You mention the Lucas archives....I understand they are at Gaydon.

[bjacko]

The Fog light was an optional extra and it could be that someone decided to add one at a later date which could be slightly different to those fitted at the factory.
_________________
1938 Morris 8 Ser II Coupe Utility (Pickup)
1985 Rover SD1 VDP

[ukdave2002]