Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ray White]

I have been pondering the issue of makes and marques and how we now see what must, at the time, have been a quite shocking development.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. When the mighty BMC was formed, they could have just stuck to a one brand or even a one model policy and the chances are that we would still have a Motor Industry today.

That, of course is not what happened. In what I assume was an attempt to cling on to brand loyalty car makers resorted to superficially "branding" a common product.

Some might see it as a cynical marketing ploy. Others, no doubt, will take a more conciliatory view. I doesn't really matter now....or does it?

[ukdave2002]

Its gone on since the dawn of the motor industry.

Today there seems to be more sharing of stuff between different manufactures, the one that makes me chuckle is the Mercedes X class, essentially a Nissan Navara assembled by Renault

[Vintage Fly Guy]

It wasn't just BMC/BL that did it, if you remember back to the early 90s, Honda (who didn't have a 4x4 SUV in their range at the time to compete with the likes of Mitsubishi and Toyota) decided, as part of their 'partnership' with Austin Rover, to re-badge a Land Rover Discovery and call it a Honda Crossroad. It was made by LR at Solihull and was pretty much just rebadged. Now if that isn't badge engineering, I don't know what is!

So we can perhaps forgive BMC/BL for using the names Riley, Wolseley, MG and Morris - at least they were part of the same group before being 'killed off'. And let us also not forget that the Rootes Group was no stranger to sticking different badges on basically the same boots and bonnets.

[Rootes75]

Rootes for definate...especially when selling in Australia and New Zealand.
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Various Rootes Vehicles.

[Ray White]

It was my recent post about the Bentley MkV1 that reminded me of how it is almost identical to the Rolls Royce Silver Dawn. Indeed the 1949 Rolls was a direct crib of the Mk V1 Bentley that came out in 1946. The main difference (apart from the radiator shell) is the automatic gearbox in the Dawn.

Rolls Royce had owned the Bentley brand since 1931 but with the introduction of the Standard Steel body after WW2, standardisation was inevitable.

When people went to buy a Sunbeam/Talbot they would have been aware that the two makes had merged. Those purchasing a BMC car would not have been given the whole story...but I expect most were aware but tried to imagine that things were much the same as they had always been...

Incidentally, way back in 1902, the American Grout steam car was being sold under the Weston name here in England. Various other makes had different names for their products depending on which country in which they were sold. I am not sure that is quite the same thing as blatantly marketing a respected marque when it actually is no more than a name.

[Keith D]

While I'm not an admirer of Leonard Lord, I must admit his BMC badge engineering acheived two good things.
He standardised engines throughout the BMC range. Most of his engines were "A', "B" or "C" types fitted to all models.
He was able to keep all his dealerships. Most towns of any size had both Austin and Morris dealerships that remained after BMC was formed.

Keith
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1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[Vintage Fly Guy]

[Ray White]

In my opinion (and I admit it is not one universally held) if an MG came from Abingdon then it is the genuine article. An MG from anywhere else is not quite the same thing; that is not to decry it, but simply to make a distinction.

In their day, the MGs from BL were something to be reckoned with!

My Brother had an MG Maestro and it was PDQ!!

[alastairq]

All down to meeting customer demand....[Or what might have been assumed to be, customer demand?]

Ford did it with Lincoln [and Edsel]....GM did it with all sorts. Chrysler did it too...

Nowadays, Jeeps are FIATs in disguise.....[what a disappointment...for both adherents?]

Then there's the world of vans?

Or the sharing of bodyshells/floorpans....even amongst entirely separate vehicle makers? {SAAB, FIAT/ Lancia?]

Also there's the 'buying-in' of other makes of engine, etc,to fill voids in vehicle ranges?

Suzuki, for example,lacked a diesel engine in their home-grown range, so bought-in motors from Renault, and {I believe?] Peugeot.

Hence, [in my limited, myopic, short sighted view]...Suzuki petrol engines being amongst the world's best, yet their diesels in the same model range are very much the curate's egg. {My experience being the Grand Vitara, both with & without chassis]

I won't ever buy a 'new' motor [besides from not having sufficient income to play about with].....simply because, I will have no idea what it is I'm buying.

But I bless the motoring gods for badge engineering, I really do.

Because, if I can find an old motor who has an extremely popular, badge-engineered sibling, I am guaranteed a source of new parts via the sibling's associated support industry.

Especially useful since good daily drivers in today's world can be found from the basic models sold in the 60's, 70's & 80's...which can rely upon the support of their more fashionable siblings.
[For example, Ford Falcons, using Ford Mustang parts]
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[mikeC]

Sir Herbert Austin was at it in 1923: The Sizaire-Berwick was an Austin Twelve or Twenty in light disguise, sold at an inflated price.
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in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!

[Ray White]