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EVs,,, A few home truths.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7075
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 1:08 am    Post subject: EVs,,, A few home truths. Reply with quote

I was impressed with this summary of electric cars. It is a fair assessment (in my opinion).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE
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Rusty



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Ray, a well thought out assessment of the situation, and he didn't even get onto the problems of what to do with all the dead battery's at the end of their life.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 2117
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also agree with Ray......
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7075
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point about what to do with the dead battery is well made. Personally, I think manufacturers of these things should be made to take them back as an exchange item.

I also think it's a bit ironic that I have chosen to fit extra fuses and relays to my MG TC - a 1949 car - because I am so nervous about fire ...and yet these new electric cars are bursting into flames all over the place apparently.

Then there is the cost of e.v.s. In a way, we have turned the clock back to a time when only the rich could afford a car. The difference is that now, only subsidised imports from China can be afforded.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7211
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EV range is still rubbish but many other aspects are very impressive. Acceleration can be superb, quietness is good, single pedal operation is good and for general convenience the lack of a gearbox is good. That latter point was brought home to me recently, not with an EV but with a modern automatic. My own manual transmission car is very nice on long journeys with its adaptive cruise control but if I am forced to slow right down or stop and the traffic ahead moves off again I need to change gear. Whereas with an auto or EV I don't need to do anything other than steer.

Peter
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Vintage Fly Guy



Joined: 27 Jun 2024
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
EV range is still rubbish but many other aspects are very impressive. Acceleration can be superb, quietness is good, single pedal operation is good and for general convenience the lack of a gearbox is good. That latter point was brought home to me recently, not with an EV but with a modern automatic. My own manual transmission car is very nice on long journeys with its adaptive cruise control but if I am forced to slow right down or stop and the traffic ahead moves off again I need to change gear. Whereas with an auto or EV I don't need to do anything other than steer.

Peter


I drive an auto as my 'every day' car and wouldn't want to go back to a manual for that role, but I do like a manual car for 'fun' and wouldn't want an auto for that role.

How often you change gear in a manual car is often down to what engine type and size the car you are driving has got. For instance, my Mum has a Suzuki Grand Vitara 1.6 VVT and I find I have to 'row that along' through the gears to make good progress. My classic car is a 1992 Range Rover Vogue 3.9 V8 manual, and that will happily pootle along and pull from 20mph in 5th gear if I want it to... so that's 20mph to a governed 112mph top end without changing gear (assuming it would be legal to achieve that top speed). In a Jaguar e-type V12 you'd be talking 20mph to around 150mph in top without changing gear if you didn't want to.

In the case of both those cars you'd have to drop it a cog or three if you wanted it to get to top speed quickly, but how often do people floor an auto these days? So it's possible to drive some manual cars quite like an auto, unless in stop-start or slow moving traffic.

As for EVs, I must admit I do have a soft spot for them... the quicksand in Morecambe Bay! Wink
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Clactonguy



Joined: 20 Mar 2018
Posts: 107
Location: clacton on sea

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:28 pm    Post subject: EV etc Reply with quote

can't see appeal ov owning an EV .aside from high costs of initial purchase she. disposal and high depreciation rates . heavy cars needing more expensive batteries ( lower power return rates in very cold weather etc) yes like an fork lift ( I have a licence ) they can be very powerful with high torque. quite . easy to drive.. I have auto car and manual. love auto in traffic and for gentle wafting around ,holiday etc but day to day I use 'stick shift' . long term can't ever see us buying an EV ( wait until power charges start ramping up to get 'tax' in as loss of fuel tax is starting to affect income stream for government ) aware emissions are a problem but manufacturing 'new' vehicles make more emissions that simply updating old cars ! (carbon etc) ideally a mileage allowance woudl make more sense with subsidy ( at moment0 for cleaner fuels such as synthetic petrol/diesel.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7075
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing you never hear about is tyre wear. I can only imagine that with these electric cars weighing so much they must get through tyres in short order.

Also; I live quite close to the A38 and road/tyre noise seems to have increased. I wonder if it is down to ever more e.v.s with their extra weight?
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 516
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:05 am    Post subject: EVs Reply with quote

What is going to happen in about 10 years when they are worth less than the cost of a new battery. The battery lose power with age and some lose almost 80% by 10 years, which of course reduces their poor range even further. What are they going to do with the old batteries? They have to be careful as throwing them in a heap at a scrap yard will be a good way to start a fire and these batteries are hard to extinguish. Not for me although I am not likely to ever buy another car at almost 87 years old!
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 7075
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: EVs Reply with quote

bjacko wrote:
What is going to happen in about 10 years when they are worth less than the cost of a new battery. The battery lose power with age and some lose almost 80% by 10 years, which of course reduces their poor range even further. What are they going to do with the old batteries? They have to be careful as throwing them in a heap at a scrap yard will be a good way to start a fire and these batteries are hard to extinguish. Not for me although I am not likely to ever buy another car at almost 87 years old!


I think some manufacturers are pretty much up to speed with end of life vehicles. My wife has a Lexus NX hybrid. What Lexus do is offer a lifetime warranty for the car AND the battery ...on condition that they carry on with servicing etc. Surprised
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:


I am so nervous about fire ...and yet these new electric cars are bursting into flames all over the place apparently.


A search online reveals that EVs are actually less prone to fires than ICE vehicles. The problem is that when they do catch fire they are extremely difficult to extinguish and can burn for hours.
Imagine (and I don't really want to) being on a cross channel ferry with a car deck full of them and there's a fire...
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2701
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually starting to annoy me now, that whenever the local FB group has a report of a vehicle being on fire, someone with no knowledge of the fire at all will jump to the conclusion that it's an EV, and then a load will jump on board. As with so many things, there's no point bringing any actual information into the argument.

Recently we've had (and still have) a lot of potholes on the local roads, which are being fixed slowly and often poorly. I've lost count of how many people are asking "where is my road tax going?" and I now only sometimes remind them that road tax hasn't been ring-fenced for road maintenance since Winston Churchill stopped it in the 1920s. And you'd think they'd be grateful for the information, wouldn't you? But no.
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petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 475
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The essential reason why more ICE vehicles catch fire is there are a lot more of them, however as more EVs become prominent, the greater the risk, and as stated, when they go up, they do it in spectacular style.
I personally think much more needs to be done to counter this possibility.
As we saw when the airport car park went up last year (reputedly a Diesel Range Rover...??) Collosal damage ensued, probably adding a tenner to everyone's annual insurance bill.
When manufacturers screw up, it's not them paying for the aftermath. It's the Joe public paying in the end!
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Vintage Fly Guy



Joined: 27 Jun 2024
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miken wrote:
Ray White wrote:


I am so nervous about fire ...and yet these new electric cars are bursting into flames all over the place apparently.


A search online reveals that EVs are actually less prone to fires than ICE vehicles. The problem is that when they do catch fire they are extremely difficult to extinguish and can burn for hours.
Imagine (and I don't really want to) being on a cross channel ferry with a car deck full of them and there's a fire...


If EVs are so safe and so good, how come we never seem to see top government figures being regularly ferried about in them instead of those Range Rovers and Land Rover Discoverys they always seem to rock up in? Ask yourself, when did you last see a few top politicians regularly arriving outside Number 10 Downing Street in a Nissan Leaf, or even a Tesla?

Let them eat cake, eh? Wink


Last edited by Vintage Fly Guy on Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:57 am; edited 4 times in total
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Vintage Fly Guy



Joined: 27 Jun 2024
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:20 am    Post subject: Re: EVs Reply with quote

bjacko wrote:
What is going to happen in about 10 years when they are worth less than the cost of a new battery. The battery lose power with age and some lose almost 80% by 10 years, which of course reduces their poor range even further. What are they going to do with the old batteries? They have to be careful as throwing them in a heap at a scrap yard will be a good way to start a fire and these batteries are hard to extinguish. Not for me although I am not likely to ever buy another car at almost 87 years old!


Did you say 10 years? I bet this purchaser wished it was 10 years: https://youtu.be/PISM5k51epM?feature=shared
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