Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

Rusty · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:23 am Post subject: Singer water pump advice needed!

Another member of my car club has just had the seal in his 1953 SM 1500 OHC engines water pump start leaking "badly" and I went out today and pulled it off for him so he can try and find a replacement. He knows somewhere he "may" find one, but "I" suspect not, so it looks like I will overhaul it for him. Does anyone know of a source of advice I can contact to find out a few things about these pumps? The seal is mounted in the impellor and seals against the housing, and it has two independent "unsealed" ball races in it on the shaft, and also doesn't appear to have any water drain holes in the pump casting in case of seal failure, which is something I don't believe I have ever "not" seen before. The pump has definitely been worked on before and I am wondering if it's been altered in spec in any way.

I have registered on the Singer club website and am just waiting to have my account activated by an administrator so thought I would ask you blokes if you know anyone I can talk to about it.

Thanks,
Graham

Keith D · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2025 12:47 pm Post subject:

Hi Graham,

I think there may be a Singer owner in the VCCC Collie branch. Give Secretary Hamish a bell to check.

Keith
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1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
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ukdave2002 · Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4231 Location: South Cheshire

You may be use/ adapt an off the shelf seal, bearing companies like Simply Bearings, stock a huge range of seals.

alastairq · Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 2117 Location: East Yorkshire

Ray White · Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 7075 Location: Derby

Rusty · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2025 1:09 am Post subject:

G'Day Keith, the owner "is" a member of the VCC and associates a lot with the Donnybrook branch, of which I am a member. He has already been in touch with someone at the parts shed and is going to have a look there tomorrow, but I think the chances of finding what he needs is pretty remote. There is apparently someone working on a car in the "deep South" possibly Albany way that has recently raided the VCCs stock of Singer parts and they aren't sure what's there now so I think he is going up to check it out.

I was reading last night on the Singer club website that a seal that will fit without modification (PS-142) is available from industrial suppliers, so will check that out. It is an unusual pump in as much as it seems to have been designed to discharge any water leaking past the seal "through" the bearings to the outside behind the pumps drive pully, that is something I haven't seen before, as they more normally have a drain from the cavity behind the seal and in front of the bearings to the outside, and pushing coolant through the bearings themselves seems somewhat "odd"! It looks like a pretty easy pump to overhaul as long as the bearings are available and I think they should be a standard size, by the 1950s most of the oddball "imperial" bearings had been metricised!

badhuis · Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Netherlands

Not having a drain hole in the pump is not as rare as it seems. The first waterpump of the Hillman Imp also had no drain. It was followed up pretty soon with a pump which had a drain hole.
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a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment

Rusty · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2025 4:34 am Post subject:

badhuis · Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Netherlands

The Climax FWMA engine was used in the prototype but Rootes altered it a lot. Despite very similar looking no parts are actually shared.
The water pump is a full Rootes design.... and needed several versions to become finally (somewhat) reliable. Shocked

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a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment

Rusty · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2025 1:16 am Post subject:

Rusty · Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2025 6:19 am Post subject:

Well, I got the pump "off and apart", The seal and seal surface definitely need attention. I have ordered a "PS-142" or equivalent seal off the local bearing suppliers which should be here in a few days. The bearings (2 of) were stocked locally, which is a bit surprising because they were an old "imperial" size, not the more common metric. I will have to get hold of the bloke with the lathe to face the seating area, and as that is on the housing rather than the impellor it will be a bit more involved than what I am used to. Will still have to locate some "calcium based" water pump grease for it, but I think it should be available, so we will see.

All in all, going as well as could be hoped for.